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After 5 Years, Kidnapped IDF Soldier Gilad Schalit Might Be Freed

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  • #16
    Got ya!

    Defense then ;)
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • #17
      I wouldn't make such a deal personaly.

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      • #18
        Gilad Schalit was returned to Israel this morning through Egypt in exchange for ~1,000 terrorists. I'm not going to get into the intricacies of whether this was a good deal or not, what matters is that it's done.

        Gilad Schalit and I both enlisted on the very same day. I've managed to participate in an active war against an enemy in further defense of my country, complete my military service, travel around the world, run my own franchise, open my own business and start my university studies. Gilad has done none of the above.

        I have made a conscious decision not to consume any information at all regarding his repatriation process or the prisoner exchange. He has had 5 years of his life stolen from him, I believe that he should be allowed to live the rest of his life in peace and tranquility and he should be given time to recover from his trials and tribulations. The media and the press use the line "The public deserves to know" to excuse their intrusions into the lives of private people. As a member of the public, I claim that I don't want to know. I want Gilad to enjoy the relaxation he hasn't enjoyed in a full 5 years.

        There are plenty news articles about his returning home and there was an interview with the Egyptian press, you can all find them yourselves with a quick Google search
        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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        • #19
          Its on BBC 24 Ben , im glad he has been released for his sake , but 1000 in exchange some who were serving life sentences for murder , on the face of it seems like a lousy deal , but can it be a part in a bigger picture towards peace ??

          On the other hand take solace that ONE Israeli soldier is worth more than a 1000 of theirs ;)
          Last edited by tankie; 18 Oct 11,, 13:02.

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          • #20
            It's a definite possibility, though past experience has shown us that released terrorists as a general rule go back to their former ways, but like I said, I'm not getting into this. I'm going to forcefully remain as oblivious as I can on this topic
            Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

            Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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            • #21
              Good to see he is finally free. His family must be overjoyed. There will be media pressure and a book deal no doubt then eventually he may find some peace but it will take a long time.

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              • #22
                Ben,

                Have you been able to see Gilad personally? I was watching him on the Egypt interview, he didn't look too well to me. Not just the obvious leanness, he looked like he was somewhere else mentally, is it just me?

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                • #23
                  Malnutrition , lack of sunlight , fear of the unknown , tends to wreck the body n mind Zinja , the beeb is making a big thing out of this ,according to an Israeli poll 8 out of 10 peeps are all for the transfer ,,,,, lets just hope some good comes out of this ,, PEACE ;)
                  Last edited by tankie; 18 Oct 11,, 16:04.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                    Report: Shalit deal on verge of realization



                    I'm approaching this one with mixed feelings. On the one hand, of course we want him back. On the other hand, is the price worth it? Of course, this could all be yet another disappointment. I'll wait for firm and concrete details and results first
                    You guys are releasing 300 terrorists, are you not?

                    I mean, I understand these arn't high officals, but nonetheless, weren't some involved with suicide bombings? Or does Israel just pick up random people on the street and pay the immense cost to lock these people up? I don't think that's the case.

                    IMHO, it would be a great day, when they could be released, yet part of a larger agreement where violence was denounced and when improvements in peace where the environment has changed substantially. In that scenario, there would have to be peace. As of right now, there is still very much conflict. I mean there comes a time where you want to forgive, to forgive to usher future peace, forgive when the environment allows you to. Make amends and move ahead from past events. And for the lesser people involved in this conflict, to denounce and maybe get a second chance.

                    But is now the time? Like this? I also have reservations. Essentially there is no framework and agreement and the cease-fire isn't on stable ground.
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Zinja View Post
                      Ben,

                      Have you been able to see Gilad personally? I was watching him on the Egypt interview, he didn't look too well to me. Not just the obvious leanness, he looked like he was somewhere else mentally, is it just me?
                      No, I haven't seem him personally, nor pictures/video of him today. I willfully distanced myself from this
                      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I don't think the PM's speech counts as encouraging reporters to intrude in Gilad's life, and this speech is important. The message to the terrorists is crystal clear: Watch out

                        PM Netanyahu's Remarks Following the Release of Gilad Shalit

                        Citizens of Israel, today we are all united in joy and in pain.

                        Two-and-a-half years ago, I returned to the Prime Minister's Office. One of the principal and most complicated missions that I found on my desk, and which I set my heart to, was to bring our abducted soldier Gilad Shalit back home, alive and well. Today, that mission has been completed.

                        It entailed a very difficult decision. I saw the need to return home someone whom the State of Israel had sent to the battlefield. As an IDF soldier and commander, I went out on dangerous missions many times. But I always knew that if I or one of my comrades fell captive, the Government of Israel would do its utmost to return us home, and as Prime Minister, I have now carried this out. As a leader who daily sends out soldiers to defend Israeli citizens, I believe that mutual responsibility is no mere slogan - it is a cornerstone of our existence here.

                        But I also see an additional need, that of minimizing the danger to the security of Israel's citizens. To this end, I enunciated two clear demands. First, that senior Hamas leaders, including arch-murderers, remain in prison. Second, that the overwhelming majority of those designated for release either be expelled or remain outside Judea and Samaria, in order to impede their ability to attack our citizens.

                        For years, Hamas strongly opposed these demands. But several months ago, we received clear signs that it was prepared to back down from this opposition. Tough negotiations were carried out, night and day, in Cairo, with the mediation of the Egyptian government. We stood our ground, and when our main demands were met - I had to make a decision.

                        I know very well that the pain of the families of the victims of terrorism is too heavy to bear. It is difficult to see the miscreants who murdered their loved ones being released before serving out their full sentences. But I also knew that in the current diplomatic circumstances, this was the best agreement we could achieve, and there was no guarantee that the conditions which enabled it to be achieved would hold in the future. It could be that Gilad would disappear; to my regret, such things have already happened.

                        I thought of Gilad and the five years that he spent rotting away in a Hamas cell. I did not want his fate to be that of Ron Arad. Ron fell captive exactly 25 years ago and has yet to return. I remembered the noble Batya Arad. I remembered her concern for her son Ron, right up until her passing. At such moments, a leader finds himself alone and must make a decision. I considered - and I decided. Government ministers supported me by a large majority.

                        And today, now Gilad has returned home, to his family, his people and his country. This is a very moving moment. A short time ago, I embraced him as he came off the helicopter and escorted him to his parents, Aviva and Noam, and I said, 'I have brought your son back home.' But this is also a hard day; even if the price had been smaller, it would still have been heavy.

                        I would like to make it clear: We will continue to fight terrorism. Any released terrorist who returns to terrorism - his blood is upon his head. The State of Israel is different from its enemies: Here, we do not celebrate the release of murderers. Here, we do not applaud those who took life. On the contrary, we believe in the sanctity of life. We sanctify life. This is the ancient tradition of the Jewish People.

                        Citizens of Israel, in recent days, we have all seen national unity such as we have not seen in a long time. Unity is the source of Israel's strength, now and in the future. Today, we all rejoice in Gilad Shalit's return home to our free country, the State of Israel. Tomorrow evening, we will celebrate Simchat Torah. This coming Sabbath, we will read in synagogues, as the weekly portion from the prophets, the words of the prophet Isaiah (42:7): 'To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.' Today, I can say, on behalf of all Israelis, in the spirit of the eternal values of the Jewish People: 'Your children shall return to their own border . [Jeremiah 31:17] Am Yisrael Chai! The People of Israel live
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tankie View Post
                          im glad he has been released for his sake , but 1000 in exchange some who were serving life sentences for murder , on the face of it seems like a lousy deal , but can it be a part in a bigger picture towards peace ??
                          That's what i've been wondering about

                          The prisoner swap would see Shalit exchanged for some 1,000 Palestinian militants held by Israel.
                          Can't say i recall such a ratio before.

                          Agree, there must more to this than we've heard. Still, cutting a deal on future expectations seems risky. And this is Bibi's govt doing it. You'd think whatever was agreed to would be more immediate. An agreement to cease attacks ? again so easy to renege on.

                          Originally posted by bigross
                          There weren't many firm details at first. Israel was pretty much forced into this position by the Palestinians leaking it to the Saudi press. Once they published it, Israel had to play ball or be labeled the reason the deal fell through
                          Intl reaction is one thing, domestic another.

                          This one's a mystery

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                          • #28
                            I notice they haven't released all the prisoners at once. About half will be held back for a few weeks/months. This may be a tactic to see if the militant assaults decrease.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
                              I notice they haven't released all the prisoners at once. About half will be held back for a few weeks/months. This may be a tactic to see if the militant assaults decrease.
                              True about 500 + , lets suck it n see .

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Why Netanyahu Made the Prisoner Swap Deal with Hamas | Foreign Affairs | October 17, 2011

                                Saving Shalit to Save Israel
                                Daniel Gordis
                                October 17, 2011

                                No one in Israel is calling the agreement signed for Gilad Shalit’s freedom a good deal. On many levels it is terrible. Israel is releasing more than 1000 prisoners, several hundred of them hardened terrorists, for one soldier. For the first time, the Jewish state essentially acquiesced as a terrorist organization dictated the list of prisoners to be released, including several responsible for mass deaths of Israeli citizens, a notion that would once have been unthinkable. Israel may well have given its enemies incentive to kidnap more soldiers. And the terrorists now being released are likely to attack and kill Israelis in the future.

                                Despite these facts, the deal for Shalit passed a cabinet vote by an overwhelming margin (26 in favor and only three opposed), and the vast majority of Israeli citizens support it. In agreeing to this prisoner swap, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli public chose to return to their roots, to revive a central tenet of old-time Israeli ideology: we do not leave our sons in the field.

                                The tenet is as old as the country itself. It stems from the fact that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) is a citizens’ army, in which conscription is universal and every family knows that it could face the same tragedy as the Shalits. And in the army itself, the “stretcher march,” in which soldiers in training are ordered to carry one of their heaviest comrades on a stretcher up hills and down valleys for miles, is a formative ritual meant to instill one message: there is never a case in which soldiers cannot bring their wounded home.

                                This ethic is taught in other armies, too, but it resonates differently in Israel. From the moment of his capture, Gilad Shalit has been a household name. Compare this to the silence in the United States regarding Bowe Bergdahl, the U.S. soldier held hostage by the Taliban since June 2009. Ever since Shalit’s kidnapping, Israeli society has been wracked by a sense that it failed in its obligation to him.

                                Bringing Shalit home, the costs of the agreement with Hamas notwithstanding, is thus a fulfillment of an honored tradition. And it comes at a time when many of Israel’s old assumptions about its surroundings no longer hold. As the country struggles to navigate the economic and political upheavals in the Middle East and across the world, the agreement represents a return to Israel’s founding values -- an opportunity for politicians and citizens alike to reassure themselves that, in some ways, today’s Israel is still the same country in which many of them were raised.

                                The Shalit agreement was prompted by the Israeli security establishment’s realization that it could not rescue its captive soldier. The very incident in which Shalit was captured -- a cross-border Hamas raid from Gaza -- was an abject failure for the IDF. In the five years since the kidnapping, the same military that destroyed the Egyptian air force on the ground in June 1967 and that rescued over one hundred hostages from Entebbe, Uganda in 1976 continuously told the government that it had no means of freeing a soldier being held just beyond the border. Admittedly, over the past generation, Israel’s enemies have become far more sophisticated. But this deal, along with Israel’s lack of military options to address the Iranian nuclear threat, has left Israelis feeling an unfamiliar sense of weakness.

                                That unease has only been compounded by the tumult of the Arab Spring. Previously, when Israel enjoyed close relationships with Egypt and Jordan and quiet on its border with Syria, it could focus almost exclusively on the security threats posed by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. But with the Muslim Brotherhood rising in Egypt, Bashar al-Assad’s regime slipping in Syria, and turmoil spreading in Jordan, Israel is operating in uncharted territory, and its people know it; the anxiety on the street is palpable.

                                Making matters worse, the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations exposed the fact that Israel is more marginalized on the global stage than ever before. And Turkey, once a stalwart ally, has recently turned strongly against it. As it lost friends across the region and around the world, Jerusalem began to wonder whether it could successfully broker a Shalit deal without them. It decided to act while the political map remained familiar.

                                The Palestinian statehood initiative also upended the notion that while Hamas was a terrorist organization with which Israel could not negotiate, Fatah was the party that would eventually strike a deal. Since Israel’s invasion of Gaza in 2008, Hamas has been more or less quiet. Although there have been rocket attacks and a cross-border strike from Egypt that may have involved elements from Gaza, those incidents were quickly quelled by Hamas. Yet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ demand for statehood at the UN nearly dealt Israel a significant blow. Should he have achieved recognition, Abbas could have pushed for sanctions on Israel for occupying another member of the General Assembly and pursued claims against it in international courts.

                                Furthermore, in his speech before the UN General Assembly, Abbas left Israelis with little hope for peace. His refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish state or to drop his demand for the right of return for Palestinian refugees into Israel proper made clear that the conflict is not about to be resolved. Israelis recognized that they would have to learn to live with this struggle, not dream of its resolution. For many, that means periodically swallowing agreements such as the swap for Shalit. To maintain the legitimacy needed to draft its sons into an army that may well be at war for generations, Israel’s government needed to show that it remains committed to bringing them home at any cost.

                                Israel’s predicament on the international front has been accompanied by social unrest at home. A summer of massive street protests across the country began because of grievances about the cost of housing but soon incorporated complaints about the rising prices of schooling, food, and raising children, as well as a myriad of other issues. The demonstrations accused Israel of abandoning social justice, another long-standing principle of Zionism. A strike by Israel’s doctors demanding more reasonable hours and increased pay still threatens to cripple the country’s public hospitals, to the point that the government has threatened to import foreign physicians. And thanks to the so-called price tag attacks -- acts of vengeance by extremist Israeli settlers on Palestinians and Arabs, including the burning of a mosque in northern Israel this past month -- racial tensions between Jews and Arabs have been on the rise, leaving Israelis disgusted and worried. All this social discord over the last several months has exposed fissures in a country that once prided itself on solidarity.

                                With Israel’s international standing crumbling and its internal cohesion fraying, Netanyahu, whose own political position was becoming tenuous, urgently needed to restore Israeli morale. He had to show that he could make tough decisions and shift the focus away from the country’s troubles to a foundational value that could reunite it. By striking the agreement to return Shalit, he succeeded. Netanyahu reminded the country of at least some of the core values that have always been critical to its ability to persevere -- values never more critical than now, as Israel’s enemies multiply and its social fabric decays.

                                Ironically, the cabinet voted for the Shalit agreement 25 years to the day after Israeli Air Force navigator Ron Arad was shot down over Lebanon, never to be seen again. Israelis decided not to re-enact that horrific affair, with the many false hopes of his return, and all of its desperation. They resolved to make a terrible deal, and a painful one, and in so doing recaptured just a bit of the Israel that once was, while they still could.

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