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  • #31
    Originally posted by FJV View Post
    If you've personally lost family or friends, then there is in my opinion no problem with remembering the WTC attack.

    What I have a problem with is a whole nation remembering defeat 10 years later and not celebrating victory. Instead you should be celebrating "we killed Bin Laden day".

    The stuff you're doing now sends the wrong message to terrorists, "we really got them, they're still crying".

    I'm sure that makes me politically incorrect, but really it doesn't make me feel otherwise.
    You have every right to feel as you wish. Isn't it the beauty of living in a democracy?

    However, without remembering the bad how will you enjoy the good?

    Defeat? Were you defeated when Japanese bombed Pearl? You were not defeated on 9/11 as well.

    One is defeated when they feel like it. I didn't see Americans defeated after that horrible day, instead I saw them united and willing to go on.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Doktor View Post
      I didn't see Americans defeated after that horrible day, instead I saw them united and willing to go on.
      You should have seen the flags start popping up everywhere soon after :)

      Made me feel much better than Rudy's extra cops.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        Depends on how you define 'won'. You won a battle and closed a chapter.

        The annoying thing about terrorism is one never knows when it will end or whether you won the war. Who is the victor of the Good Friday accords ?

        All you know is you weren't defeated. But being defeated isn't even feasible as terrorism is what the weaker party uses against a stronger one. Embarassed is as far as it goes.

        Listening to John Miller recently, he was previously part of the team that briefs POTUS evey morning, he said they had successfully interdicted about 50 plotted attempts since 9/11. The going rate is one per month. Recently you got lucky twice. But there is no let up here and statistically speaking somebody is going to succeed at some point.

        I have my doubts whether it will ever be on the scale of 9/11 tho.

        That's where terrorist have the upper hand. They choose where and when to act. There are no battlefields or huge amounts of troops to move and they can walk past you in the street smiling saying hello and you would never know. They can take days, months or years to act, they have sleepers just waiting for the word. Most of all they use the threat of terror to terrorize.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
          Most of all they use the threat of terror to terrorize.
          I say so be it, I will meet the creator when it's meant to be. Terrorist, car accident, heart attack or old age, doesn't matter it will end the same with me 6ft under ;)
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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          • #35
            I found the world to be a sadder place because of 11 Sept. By my observations, on 12 Sept, 2001, there were enough Muslims dancing on the streets to state that they at least appreciate the US was taken down a peg. Yeah, I know a few does not represent the many but the voices against the US had not grown softer. They grew louder. The US refused to be taken down a peg and be humbled. What's more, those soft nations, Canada, the UK, France, Austrailia, Germany, Italy, Holland, Sweden, etc, those who historically rather bend (Kosovo War) then to have a back bone to demand vengence. None of us yield. And the one NATO member, the radicals can at least count on not to join in, Turkey, took command.

            11 Sept gave us a world none of us expected. We went to war not expecting a war and our enemies never figure us to have the iron for war.

            We have a war neither side expected it but it is currently the West's advantage. Our enemy may have not expected war when asking for war but we deliver war whether we or our enemy is ready for it or not.
            Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 13 Sep 11,, 04:55.

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            • #36
              Well put, Col.
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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              • #37
                Lets not forget the 40 on United 93 who fought back and died in Pennsylvania.
                And to this day I'm amazed and angered that they all weren't awarded Presidential Medals of Freedom for their heroism, not to mention the NYFD and NYPD for their heroic acts that day. I'm certain there were many more hero stories that warranted it that I can't recall off the top of my head, but for certain those aforementioned were most deserving.

                I didn't see Americans defeated after that horrible day, instead I saw them united and willing to go on.
                I saw a BUNCH of pissed off Texans ready to go kill for their country and make the other poor bastards die for theirs.
                Last edited by BB61Vet; 13 Sep 11,, 06:52.
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                • #38
                  Originally posted by BB61Vet View Post
                  And to this day I'm amazed and angered that they all weren't awarded Presidential Medals of Freedom for their heroism, not to mention the NYFD and NYPD for their heroic acts that day. I'm certain there were many more hero stories that warranted it that I can't recall off the top of my head, but for certain those aforementioned were most deserving.
                  Maybe a National Book of Hero's solely for all Emergency Service Personnel who gave their lives selflessly for others.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tankie View Post
                    Sick bastards , I wish they would all fcuk off .
                    These people need immeadiate and summary deportation to Saudia Arabia a la Australia/Malaysia.

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                    • #40
                      Maria,

                      Please go introduce yourself and be notified that ads are prohibited on this forum (hence your signature)
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Good call, minion! 5 minutes and you were onto him...
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                          Good call, minion! 5 minutes and you were onto him...
                          Tarek is killing them all. Bad, bad Tarek
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                            Tarek is killing them all. Bad, bad Tarek
                            While I might agree with your chastisement of our Admin and his banhammer, in this thread in particular it was the right thing to kill him off quick. This thread is a respectful one and should remain that way
                            Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                            Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              No pun was intended towards Tarek. I apologize.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                WTC Memorial

                                Sorry I missed this thread before now. Travelling in America for the past 4 weeks 9-11 has been very much on my mind. In some ways I was surprised that there wasn't more public fuss (though I have been a bit out of the news watching buasiness), but it has clearly been in the minds of everyone here. I have engaged more than a few in conversation & for so many people it is as if it happened yesterday. Walking around manhattan you are struck by the extent to which the Empire State building looms over everything. I can only imagine that the WTC did the same. To have it gone must have been wrenching for peoplen & around new York. I stayed with a friend in Brooklyn who was working south of midtown manhattan that day. He saw the towers fall. it stays with him.

                                I had the good fortune to visit the newly opened ground zero memorial last week. It is a moving & beautiful place. I had a taste of what was to come on the way to the memorial. Walking from the upper edge of downtown towrd the memorial the unfinished 'Freedom Tower' came into view. A giant reminder of the urge to rebuild. As I got closer I saw that some fire units had been called out to a building just north of the WTC. Walking past the fire trucks I noticed the names on each unit - names of those who fell on 9/11. I saw the same thing days later walking around Greenwich Village & it was no less powerful then.

                                The memorial is big & open. There are lots of trees, including the 'survivor tree'. The pools sit in the footprint of the original towers are simple yet beautiful. There is something almost hypnotic about watching the water, though the noise is a bit too much to truly call it meditative. Walk a few feet away, however, and even amidst so much construction there is a peace. Looming over was the freedom Tower & its huge american flag. I'm not usually one for flags, but this one just seems right. Above the construction site was a sign with the names of all the victims. You can feel the sense of purpose.

                                What really makes the place, however, is the names. Tower one has the names of all the victims there & the first reponders & flight 93 (I think - getting a bit fuzzy). Tower two has its victims, the Pentagon people & the 1993 victims. The diversity of names is striking - all of the diversity of America's most diverse city memorialized. People were clearly looking for friends & family. Some left flowers, took rubbings, or just put a wet hand print on a name (see below). One young lady just sat weeping. One of the security people came over to comfort her.

                                Two things that day really brought this home to me. Standing in line I got chatting to a lady from Staten island. She was interested to hear about my holiday. I asked her if she had visited the site before (she had, many times). I didn't ask the obvious question. Didn't seem polite. We bumped into each other again inside. She smiled again & told me 'there are too many names here of people I knew'. Sorta brings it home. The other moment for me was thge name of one of the first reponders. he was the only victim from his fire company & next to his name was 'ret'. Clearly he was a retired fireman who gave the city he served that last full measure of devotion.

                                The lady from Staten I. told me ther was a memorial near the ferry terminal on the island to the victims from there. I finished my morning with a visit. It was nearly deserted. it was small & simple, remembering each person. Perhapos most poigniantly the memorial looks back toward the sea & toward manhattan - the daily journey from which so many did not return on September 11 2001.








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                                Last edited by Bigfella; 03 Oct 11,, 00:50.
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                                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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