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  • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Because Tuscaloosa had been specially fitted out for FDR and was his normal navy ship to sail on. Since we sold and scrapped CA-37 I don't see that as a reason to save the Iowa.
    Don't you mean Augusta?

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    • Tuscaloosa had been the Presidential Flagship since 1939. She was the ship that FDR toured the Lend Lease bases in the Bahamas , the ship he took to his vacation home in Campobello and toured the Panama Canal all the way to the pacific side.

      Everyone remembers Augusta because she was the ship that hosted both FDR and WC. She had been converted for Presidential Flagship duties in 1941. And she remained the Presidential flagship for Truman

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      • At Minuteman National Historic Park we preserve a number of witness houses to the Lexington and Concord Fight. Always worth a look, but the ranger of the day there goes out 2x a day to fire a musket and that's the only thing people come to see. They like to say the noise and smoke brings them in, but a few will learn something while they are there and come back to look at the rest of the park. I think you can say the same about a battleship- it's a type of ship guaranteed to bring in visitors. They come to look at the giant guns, but maybe they learn a little bit too while they are there about the Navy, life at sea and history. It's the only class of surface combatant from WW-2 that the entire class still saw active service in the 90's and that in itself is significant. Hell, even during their most recent active service they were already museum ships in a way. Everyone wanted to visit them. Whenever we tied up outboard of the Iowa at the Norfolk carrier piers we would always look up our counterparts on the Iowa to get a walk around.

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        • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
          Well she was the ship where the treaty ending WW2 was signed. Much more significant than NJ battle stars for post war service.
          Grape, New Jersey finished WW2 with a total of 9 battle stars and was Fleet flagship for the majority of those campaigns. Missouri although did serve as fleet flagship on atleast one occassion with Halsey finished WW2 with three battle stars.

          New Jerseys other ten stars came during the other three commisionings. These were not peace time awards either.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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          • Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
            Iowa's role in WW II didn't amount to much? Okay, you "Historians". Look up Iowa's very first mission in WW II where she sailed into the Baltic Sea. What was anchored in Norway at that time and why did it stay there? Because just enough info had been (quote) leaked out (unquoate) that the Iowa could outrun, out manuever and outshoot that dude any time of the day or NIGHT.

            It took the entire British Home Fleet to bring down the lead ship of that class, but just one IOWA to keep her huddled up in a safe fjiord (until the Brits built their X-crafts and perfected their Tall Boys).

            Iowa faced the possibility of meeting the Tirpitz, It was of great concern to protect the convoys and merchantmen that were supplying what was needed for the troops and the Allies on both fronts. To let this ship into the open ocean was not going to happen so she played an important part in deterance. Iowa wasnt freed from this duty until Tirpitz was bombed several times by the British and out of commision.

            More importantly, She took Roosevelt to the Tehran conference. Protecting and safe guarding the US President and his upper Brass enterage that accompanied him during war time IMO, trumps all in this instance.

            Enough importance to warrant the air cover of two escort carriers (Block Island and Santee) and more then three different sets of USN destroyers and finally the cruiser Brooklyn and five more destroyers both US & British as escorts along the journey.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              Grape, New Jersey finished WW2 with a total of 9 battle stars and was Fleet flagship for the majority of those campaigns. Missouri although did serve as fleet flagship on atleast one occassion with Halsey finished WW2 with three battle stars.
              Was the 3d fleet flagship for a while. Halsey also used South Dakota and his most used flagship USS Enterprise. The ship that earned 20 battle stars but we didn't think was important enough to save.

              New Jerseys other ten stars came during the other three commisionings. These were not peace time awards either.
              But they were "battle stars" where there was no naval opposition either. 2 stars for a single deployment to vietnam. One for being parked off the coast of Lebanon. She was never "In harms way" for those.

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              • Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                Iowa faced the possibility of meeting the Tirpitz, It was of great concern to protect the convoys and merchantmen that were supplying what was needed for the troops and the Allies on both fronts. To let this ship into the open ocean was not going to happen so she played an important part in deterance. Iowa wasnt freed from this duty until Tirpitz was bombed several times by the British and out of commision.
                Wrong, She protected the American leg of the convoys. The Home Fleet , and their respective US battleships, pinned the Tirpitz up in Norway. Those battleships were Washington, SD, and Ala. They patrolled the coast of Norway. They reinforced the weather station in the arctic. The one that Tirpitz had been shelling

                Iowa did the same as NC. If the Tirpitz had broke through the home Fleet into the open Atlantic,Iowa was there to protect the convoys.

                Iowas was in Newfoundland 27 Aug to 25 Oct 1943. Tirpitz was disabled in Nov 44. So Iowas was long gone before the threat was gone.
                More importantly, She took Roosevelt to the Tehran conference. Protecting and safe guarding the US President and his upper Brass enterage that accompanied him during war time IMO, trumps all in this instance.
                You mean like his normal Presidential Flagships the Cruisers Tuscaloosa and Augusta?
                Last edited by Gun Grape; 24 Dec 12,, 21:16.

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                • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                  Iowas was in Newfoundland 27 Aug to 25 Oct 1942. Tirpitz was disabled in Nov 44. So Iowas was long gone before the threat was gone.
                  Sorry Sir, but this is not correct. The USS Iowa was not commissioned yet in 1942; so her Atlantic deployment was surely the 1943, and that's what is reported in many sources.
                  You can check in Wikipedia:
                  "On 24 February 1943, Iowa put to sea for a shakedown in the Chesapeake Bay and along the Atlantic coast. She got underway on 27 August for Argentia, Newfoundland, to counter the threat of the German battleship Tirpitz which was reportedly operating in Norwegian waters, before returning to the United States on 25 October for two weeks of maintenance at the Norfolk Navy Yard."
                  Meanwhile the date when Tirpitz was seriously damaged in an attack by British mini-submarines was September 22 of 1943.

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                  • Thanks for catching it. A fat finger mistake. Corrected.

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                    • her repairs took till april 44. Dred said Iowas was there till Tirpitz was out of commission due to the British bombing. That was Nov 44

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                      • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                        her repairs took till april 44. Dred said Iowas was there till Tirpitz was out of commission due to the British bombing. That was Nov 44
                        That is right, but the bombing in Nov 1944 wasn't the first one. It was last one - in a chain of several bombing operations that started yet in 3 April 1944 with Operation Tungsten, just a day before the battleship should start her trials when she completed her repairs after the attack of mini-subs. The air attack caused a pretty serious damage that required new extensive repairs - until the end of June of 1944. But by then, when the ship was repaired at least, the whole strategic situation in European waters already changed and the total superiority of the Allied navies become overwhelming.

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                        • Originally posted by Alex Mandel View Post
                          That is right, but the bombing in Nov 1944 wasn't the first one. It was last one - in a chain of several bombing operations that started yet in 3 April 1944 with Operation Tungsten, just a day before the battleship should start her trials when she completed her repairs after the attack of mini-subs. The air attack caused a pretty serious damage that required new extensive repairs - until the end of June of 1944. But by then, when the ship was repaired at least, the whole strategic situation in European waters already changed and the total superiority of the Allied navies become overwhelming.
                          Repairs to the bottom of the hull of Tirpitz were minimal at best. A total of 4 side charges actually stacked on top of each other blew a tremendous hole in the ship and destroyed a lot of structural beams. The ship needed a dry dock. But the only one big enough for her was destroyed by the British ramming an American "Four Stacker" (modified to look like a German Zestroyer) into the caisson of the dock with the bow loaded with explosives. The blast not only took out the caisson, it seriously damaged the dry dock seals so a backup caisson could not be installed.

                          Then the Brits let loose on the Tirpitz with Tall Boy bombs from Lancasters of the Dam Buster squadron. I found it humorous in the movie "The Dam Busters" where there is a scene that the squadron leader is being told that the targets were the Ruhr River dams. He replied, "Thank goodness. I thought we were going to go after the Tirpitz."
                          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                          • Was the 3d fleet flagship for a while. Halsey also used South Dakota and his most used flagship USS Enterprise. The ship that earned 20 battle stars but we didn't think was important enough to save.

                            Halsey did use the South Dakota and the Enterprise. The Admiral not having "earned" his wings until he was at 50 years of age, chose the New Jersey as his flagship not only owing to the fact he was a resident of Elizabethtown NJ. But, also being Admiral he could have chosen a brand new Essex class carrier however opted for the New Jersey because the Essex class carriers were too "vulnerable". (Sea of Thunder chapter 7 The Big Blue Fleet).

                            Halsey was also originally a battleship sailor having served as a junior officer aboard the battleship Kansas in 1908. He also served on Destroyers later in life.

                            *Enterprises namesake has had several ships named for her. One in present state of decom and a not yet built Gerald R Ford class of nuclear carrier to be named.

                            I was under the assumption we were still discussing the BB's only. I also have nothing against the cruisers, Halseys boss Spruance raised his flag on one.
                            Last edited by Dreadnought; 27 Dec 12,, 04:55.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • But they were "battle stars" where there was no naval opposition either. 2 stars for a single deployment to vietnam. One for being parked off the coast of Lebanon. She was never "In harms way" for those.

                              Disagree, New Jersey was not only shot at during her Vietnam Tour but was also bracketed by shore based artilery.

                              William J. Sweet Sr., Captain USN (Ret.) was USS New Jersey's Chief Engineer from 1967 - 1969. In addi-tion, Captain Sweet was one of three Command Watch Officers, ordering 1/3rd of the rounds fired from the ship during her Vietnam deployment 1968-1969 (Operations, Weapons and Engineering Commander depart-ment heads, were all on a one-in-three watch-standing schedule while at the gun line)

                              You may read his comments regarding one incident here:
                              http://www.battleshipnewjersey.org/history/2012-1Q.pdf

                              Commenting on being so close to land in Vietnam in other instances here:

                              According to Retired Senior Chief Gunners Mate Mike Murphy of Panama City, Florida, and who was in charge of all portside secondary batteries… “during one operation we came in so close ashore for a firing mission far inland, that we were kicking up thick mud. As we looked down at the churning mud, a Master Chief standing next to me said: „I think the only way the old man won‟t make Rear Admiral is if he grounds this ship…

                              http://www.ussnewjersey.com/vol7-01.pdf

                              There are other instances as well that are not noted in any books out there however recorded interviews with J. Edward Snyder tell a bit of a different tail in some of the fire missions they were called upon for including shooting directly over a hospital that was taking direct artillery fire.

                              Those you would have to visit the ship and listen too.

                              I think you will find that not only was New Jersey in "harms way" on several occasions buy she also aided those that were directly in harms way and not only the destroyers taking shore fire but also the American Foces ashore.

                              You can read about this from this page:
                              ALPHA COMPANY 4 / 3 11TH LIGHT INFANTRY BRIGADE

                              In Lebannon she not only provided fire for support but also lost 1 crewmember in the Marine Barracks that exploded. It would not have mattered which of the Iowas responded however New Jersey was the first back in service and available having dashed there from duty off Central America arriving 24 September. Septemeber 26th a "cease fire" was in effect until other provocations changed that order. The mission would have been the same, fire support where the destroyers,frigates and cruisers couldnt reach with their five inch guns.

                              *Its very "rare" instances where these ships are "parked" for gunfire support and one of the only times I know of this was during the Korean War.

                              She has earned all of her battle stars beyond doubt.
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 27 Dec 12,, 05:33.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment


                              • here is why I disagree. Its a plaque on the Hornet about a DD s history

                                USS La Vallette Took part in 16 different invasions. Took part in 13 shore bombardments. Shot down 11 enemy planes. For these actions she earned 10 battle Stars.

                                Compare that to "earning" 2 battle stars for one 7 month deployment on the gunline in Vietnam. Or one for being parked off the coast of Beirut.

                                I know about Chief Ski, I read his name every year. He was a ET that was on shore to fix a beacon that unfortunately decided to stay overnight. A former WAB poster was a friend of his that also stayed ashore. Chief Ski dying does not "earn the ship a battle star.

                                The Marine Barracks (it was actually the BLT HQ) did not explode. It was bombed.

                                Attached Files

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