Turkey slams UN flotilla report, announces harsh measures against Israel

[Castellano]

castellano,



not sure who is claiming this, though?

this is not connected to NATO, it is an israeli-turkish bilateral spat.

It is a bilateral spat that leaves NATO in an awkward position.

But let me explain:

I recall that when Turkey excluded Israel from Anatolian Eagle in 2009 ( a NATO military exercise), which Turkey justified based on criticism of the Cast Lead operation in Gaza, we could read it right here that actually, NATO and specifically the US would be much much better off choosing Turkey over Israel as an ally. Which, by implication, and taking this rationale to its last consequences, would mean the US and therefore NATO as a whole effectively siding with the Hamas and against Israel over the allegiance of Erdogan´s Turkey.

Fast forward two years, and according to the line of argument I just described, a “realist” and consequential NATO policy would be to support Turkey in its “measures for freedom of maritime movement in the eastern Mediterranean Sea” adventurism. Wouldn´t it? At least politically, and since you are it, why not militarily.

[Castellano]

NATO aid Hamas? Yeah, good luck with that one....

No, really Dreadnought. Not in so many words, but by implication this sort stuff is seriously argued all the time.

[Zinja]

It is a bilateral spat that leaves NATO in an awkward position.

But let me explain:

I recall that when Turkey excluded Israel from Anatolian Eagle in 2009 ( a NATO military exercise), which Turkey justified based on criticism of the Cast Lead operation in Gaza, we could read it right here that actually, NATO and specifically the US would be much much better off choosing Turkey over Israel as an ally. Which, by implication, and taking this rationale to its last consequences, would mean the US and therefore NATO as a whole effectively siding with the Hamas and against Israel over the allegiance of Erdogan´s Turkey.

Fast forward two years, and according to the line of argument I just described, a “realist” and consequential NATO policy would be to support Turkey in its “measures for freedom of maritime movement in the eastern Mediterranean Sea” adventurism. Wouldn´t it? At least politically, and since you are it, why not militarily.

The US (read NATO) was heavy on the Turks on the second flotilla which fizzled out.

There is a difference between just exercises which can be done again another day and a NATO member provoking a military confrontation with a democracy which isn't a threat to any NATO member. NATO will not tolerate such adventurism, NATO is for the level headed.

[Castellano]

The US (read NATO) was heavy on the Turks on the second flotilla which fizzled out.

There is a difference between just exercises which can be done again another day and a NATO member provoking a military confrontation with a democracy which isn't a threat to any NATO member. NATO will not tolerate such adventurism, NATO is for the level headed.

Yes, I agree. I don´t doubt this would only result in Turkey´s alienation within NATO. My issue is rather with those who argued, and pretty recently:

a) that the US (read NATO) should choose Turkey over Israel in their ongoing crisis

b) that Turkey´s policies were smart

[bigross86]

No, Turkey is getting exactly what they want, that is, to join the anti-Israel band wagon. You(Israel) on the other hand still don't get it. You are still vying for affections of somebody who clearly doesn't like you and has all but obvious intent to harm you. You better acquiescence to a world without Turkey in your in your lives, and stop groveling.

I see no problem with that, and that's probably what's going to happen. When it comes to Turkey, Israel has stopped groveling long ago. There's no way Israel is going to apologize to Turkey over this. We've lived without Turkey for quite a while, I'm sure we'll manage. Lately they've been more trouble than they're worth, anyway

[bigross86]

This is not enough, Israelis executed Turkish citizens in international waters. A complete cut of the relationship would be appropriate and hunting down every Israeli that was involved in this operation and bring them to justice in Turkish courts.

Did you even read what the report said? Israel had every right to board in international waters, and while they may have used excessive force (I personally disagree), that doesn't change the fact that Israel was in her right to board in international borders, and while it's a shame that people died, I don't see how you can accuse soldiers who initially attacked with paintball guns and were met with iron bars, chains and knives of execution.

A complete cut of relations would do just fine, like I said, lately Turkey is far more trouble than they're worth to us

[bigross86]

I really don't feel i have to talk about what happened on the flotilla... how ugly and dangerous those fad ass believers were... how israeli soldiers were scared etc. You can understand Hitler or any worst person if you try... therefore we have laws. Civillians without firearms are killed on international waters by military of another country. Of course seriousness, carelessness or intent of israeli army is questioned, most importantly how they even touch to Turkish citizens on international waters. what does it mean? ;) topic is only news at the moment. i am out too.

Okay, so I just addressed the international waters part. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry, you'll have to deal with it elsewhere.

As for your argument of "civilians" without firearms, that's entirely irrelevant. In closed quarters combat, a knife is just as dangerous as a gun (some would say more so), and the threat is the same. You deal with that threat the way you would deal with any other threat. You take it out.

And for further reference: Hitler and Godwin have absolutely nothing to do with this argument. It's very easy for you to say that you're out. Grow up, come back with a decent argument supported on facts, and then we'll talk. Until then you are acting as nothing more than a spoiled child. You and all of Turkey

[Dreadnought]

IMO, That Turkish Flotilla full of protesters might as well have walked straight into a mine field blind folded and piss drunk. Thats pretty much what they did was put misplaced faith the Israelis would do absolutely nothing before fact that they would indeed do everything out of sheer ignorance and stupidity and political crap. There was no way in the world the Israeli's were going to allow those ships into Gaza's port. The supply of weapons to Gaza via the sea has calmed greatly. They are going to keep it that way no matter the cost.

Your literally asking them to foresake the safety of their own people by what would follow afterwards had they let that Flotilla land in Gaza by using Palestian aid to be used as a pawn when it could have easily transited via the land crossings after inspection for weapons. The Israeli's face danger on all sides of their country. One less danger is one less worry and allows concentration of forces to keep the other borders under vigilant watch and their people safe.

What would you have done in a situation just like this?

Look at the US and the USN's actions during the Cuban missle crisis. They would have blown Russia to pieces and were more then willing to do so had it came to it. They had 8" cruiser guns literally trained upon the Russian freighters and forced them to uncover the weapons for all to see or they were going to open fire and sink them under POTUS orders that the blockade holds no matter what.

This was 90 miles from American shores! aka International Waters but it posed a credible AND UNDENIABLE (via images taken from Recon flights) threat to the American people by a fanatic (Castro) and to the Israeli's (HAMAS).

There are plenty of video's that support that point on youtube. Actual footage of USN ships confronting Russian ships.

Do you really think the USN cared in the least for what Castro thought at the time? You would be fooling yourself if you think they did.

This whole thing was nothing more then an afront to discredit the Israeli's on the International level, Nothing more, nothing less.

If Turkey really cared that much instead of out of Political ends then move all the dam Palestinians and HAMAS to Turkey and let them deal with them and their bullshit.

It would cure the problem overnight which would be a world first for anything even like this. Its not like Turkey is not big enough nor enough open land? So?

The report as independent as it may be even states that there is no lack of supplies via the land crossings and the Palestinians still get US aid.

IMO, Stop pointing the fingers at the Israelis and realize HAMAS and those that support it and their actual existence along with HEZBOLLAH AND AQ are the real problems this world faces.

Its the Palestinians that must stand up against HAMAS , no one else can do it for them and no one else is going to lay down to their demands and feel sorry for them. It can all change but they have to do it not the rest of the world lay down for it because they feel sorry for them. If they want peace then it will happen and not one minute until.

AMEN and HOLY SHIT!

[Dreadnought]

For those that need to see proof, here is one of many examples of blockading Cuba in International waters. Fast forward to 3:00 to see this or just watch the whole thing. This is reality not some hair brain activist crap backed by an outside entity. There are many more just like it.

From Cuba to Vietnam - YouTube

[Doktor]

Link?

In Turkish

[airforceexpert]

"As a littoral state which has the longest coastline in the Eastern Mediterranean, Turkey will take whatever measures it deems necessary in order to ensure the freedom of navigation in the Eastern Mediterranean"

This statement which was contained in the Press Release of the Turkish Foreign Minister has been further clarrified as follows:

(1) The Turkish Navy will escort all vessels to and from Gaza;
(2) The Turkish Navy will from now patrol the Eastern Mediterranean sea;
(3) All vessels to and from Syria and Lebanon will be escorted by Turkish Navy vessels
(4) Turkey will not allow any non-Israeli flagged vessel to be stopped and searched by Israeli Navy vessels in International waters within the Eastern Mediterranean sea.
(5) Turkey will deploy it's Naval Patrol and combat aircraft to police the Eastern Mediterranean sea by air.

Report: Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza
Report: Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Report: Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza
Turkish officials tell Hurriyet Daily News that Turkish navy will strengthen presence in eastern Mediterranean Sea to stop Israeli 'bullying'.

By Barak Ravid

The Turkish navy will significantly strengthen its presence in the eastern Mediterranean Sea as one of the steps the Turkish government has decided to take following the release of the UN Palmer report on the 2010 Gaza flotilla, Turkish officials told the Hurriyet Daily News.

"The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their bullying practices against civilian vessels," a Turkish official was quoted as saying.

As part of the plan, the Turkish navy will increase its patrols in the eastern Mediterranean and pursue "a more aggressive strategy".

According to the report, Turkish naval vessels will accompany civilian ships carrying aid to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

Another goal of the plan is to ensure free navigation in the region between Cyprus and Israel. The region includes areas where Israel and Cyprus cooperate in drilling for oil and gas.

Additionally, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan instructed his foreign ministry to organize a trip for him to the Gaza Strip in the near future.

"We are looking for the best timing for the visit,” a Turkish official was quoted as saying. “Our primary purpose is to draw the world’s attention to what is going on in Gaza and to push the international community to end the unfair embargo imposed by Israel.”

‘Israel’s bullying in eastern Med is over’
Serkan Demirtaş
ANKARA – Hürriyet Daily News
Friday, September 2, 2011
The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their “bullying” practices against civilian vessels, a Turkish official said Friday.

The official said this would be the outcome of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu’s statement earlier in the day that “Turkey would take every precaution it deems necessary for the safety of maritime navigation in the eastern Mediterranean.”

Davutoğlu’s statement about providing maritime safety in the eastern Mediterranean grabbed the most attention among the various sanctions against Israel the foreign minister announced Friday. He did not further elaborate, however, on what he meant by taking “every precaution.”

The Turkish foreign minister’s statement will likely spark a new faceoff between Turkey and Israel, the region’s strongest armies, in the eastern Mediterranean. A potential confrontation between the two countries’ navies would have serious negative consequences for regional stability.

Turkish diplomats told the Hürriyet Daily News that the Turkish Navy will be more visible in the eastern Mediterranean through regular patrolling in international waters. “A more aggressive strategy will be pursued. Israel will no longer be able to exercise its bullying practices freely,” one said.

Using Turkish naval vessels to escort ships carrying aid to Palestine and observing free navigation in the zone between the island of Cyprus and Israel are among the plans set to be implemented, sources said, adding that Turkish war ships would be more frequently seen in the area.

The zone described by Turkish sources has been the subject of a recent diplomatic struggle between Turkey and Greek Cyprus over the latter’s project to start drilling natural gas reserves. Greek Cyprus and Israel recently agreed to jointly initiate the drilling with the participation of some American companies.

Turkey sees the gas-exploration deal as an agreement between two hostile countries against Turkey and has urged both parties not to get involved in such a project before a solution is found to the Cyprus issue in order to preserve the stability of the eastern Mediterranean.

In an interview with daily Zaman on Friday, EU Minister Egemen Bağış hinted that Turkish Navy could intervene if Greek Cyprus does not call off the project. “That’s what a navy is for,” he said.

Erdoğan plans Gaza visit

As part of Turkey’s more aggressive strategy against Israel, sources told the Daily News that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is planning to visit Hamas-controlled Gaza in the coming weeks, an intention he voiced in late July.

“Our prime minister has already instructed the Foreign Ministry to set a date for the visit. We are looking for the best timing for the visit,” a diplomatic source said. “Our primary purpose is to draw the world’s attention to what is going on in Gaza and to push the international community to end the unfair embargo imposed by Israel.”

© 2011 Hurriyet Daily News
URL: ‘Israel’s bullying in eastern Med is over’ - Hurriyet Daily News

[Zinja]

This is becoming quite zesty. no doubt Turkey is looking for a confrontation, they are spoiling for a fight.

[Doktor]

Turkish naval vessels will accompany civilian ships carrying aid to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip

How are they planing to do that? I mean isn't Gaza still Israeli territory?

[Zinja]

How are they planing to do that? I mean isn't Gaza still Israeli territory?

They are spoiling for a fight. Only the voice of NATO is going to put a stop to this madness. I don't see Israel backing down on the blockade and Turkey is clearly being the aggressor here. As the report vindicates both Israel's boarding of the ships in international waters and the blockade itself, Turkey is clearly belligerent here.

[bigross86]

Not only that, like the Palmer report concluded, the blockade is legal and therefore Israel can board any ship in international waters that is suspected to be a blockade runner. If Turkey tries to stop that from happening then they are in essence breaking, or at the very least circumventing international law