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Thread: Serbia-the autopsy report

  1. #1171
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Well well, looky looky I was right on the money.

    http://www.gazetaexpress.com/en/news...a-year-174042/

  2. #1172
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Well, I think that it will be best for me to continue withe the study. But before that starts, I will try to describe current themes that are actual in Serbia.

    First the time line.

    On January 16th 2018, Oliver Jovanovic, representative for Kosovo Serbs and the leader of Civic initiative (SDP), succumb to his wounds, after being shoot six times at close range, in Northern Mitrovica. This murder stalled the on going negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina, as the event itself was politicized almost right away. Serbian side claimed that he was shoot by an organized crime group, while the official Kosovo representatives stated that his murder was done in order to send a signal that the Kosovo is a failed state. Independent journalist, however, claim that he was shoot by organized crime group but stating that criminals were from Serbia. Up to this day, no significant statements were given about the killing or investigation.

    On March 26th 2018. the Director of the office for Kosovo, Marko Djuric was arrested in Kosovoska Mitrovica, by the the Kosovo's Police ROSU (Regional Operation Support Unit, which can be loosely compared to SWAT team). Upon arrest in the almost theatrical operation, Marko was taken to Pristina and than expelled from Kosovo. Considering that he is a member of Serbian government, this event completely stalled the negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina and heighten the tensions. On that same day, unconfirmed reports state that two unknown UAV's made incursion into the Serbian airspace from Romania and Bosnia. Their flights continued until March 28th, when two MiG 29 were scrambled and set to patrol airspace near the border with Kosovo. In addition, three strike aircraft, flown low level flights in that same area. Officially, these flights and activities were labeled as regular drills.

    From March 2018 till today, in Bosnia, the inflow of migrants increased dramatically. Official numbers are unknown but estimated to be between 50.000 and 70.000 with 150.000 waiting to enter Bosnia. This inflow, raised tensions between entities as Republika Srpska stated that it is unable to accept migrants due to lack of funds and space and out of security fears.

    On April 28 2018, in the Austrian town of Bleiburg, there was a commemorative mass for the Croatian Ustase prisoners and other Nazi collaborators whom were executed by Yugoslavian partizans. This event follows the increased right wing rhetoric in Croatia, that aims to clean up the WW2 past and to erase the memory of genocide towards Serbs that happened during that period.
    Last edited by Versus; 22 May 18, at 04:46.

  3. #1173
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    Today, UAV's flights have been confirmed and their types identified as MQ-1 Predators, with justified barrage of anger and resentment towards our air defense in the texts.
    Last edited by Versus; 21 May 18, at 22:04.

  4. #1174
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    So why this danse macabre, this tango with death? Problem with these events is that there is enough evidence for the construct as much as there is enough evidence that events are genuine. In the case of the construct, this escalation is aimed to raise tensions in the artificial way, so that solutions, that would be unacceptable if presented in raw form, could become acceptable. In other words, it is a controlled demolition.

    Albanians have demonstrated resolve to push with their agenda, with the ROSU stunt and Serbia has demonstrated its resolve with low level flight.

    NATO has demonstrated its resolve with Predator's overflights. The inability of Serbian air defense to prevent their flights, shows that Serbia does not control its airspace and that it can't shoot down prop planes with its newly acquired MIG's, which makes their acquisition pointless. Also, NATO's military planes flying over Serbia, in that fashion, illegally, demonstrates its power in raw form. It shows that NATO doesn't care about laws and legality and that "only might is right" thinking and attitude. It shows that it is still sided with the Albanians and that it still sees Serbia as potential bad guy and a target, regardless of the fact that Albanians started first.

    The reality is not concern for NATO and actual events on the ground do not influence decision making. It is the perception of the events and the predefined goals that matter, not the reality. Reality is adjusted to the preconceived narrative and in that narrative Serbia is a Russian ally and the trap door and therefore what ever others, that ally with the west do, is justified and everything that Serbia does is not and deserves to be sanctioned. It is an inquisition logic at its best. Every witch in the West go its fair trail, but I seriously doubt that it was proven that any of them was actually a witch.

    So in this set up, Serbia's recognition of Kosovo is far more acceptable solution than a conflict and I see these events as a move towards that, predetermined goal. Problem is that it won't solve anything, because after recognizing Kosovo, Serbia will get new demands, like war reparations and that could be done trough Presevo valley after which Sanjak region will start its secession and of course Vojvodina.

    It won't stop even when Sanjak, Presevo and Vojvodina go away.

  5. #1175
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    This attitude is actually the main subject of this study, because it showed its ugly face many times before and it can be tracked trough time. This predestination narrative that is the same regardless if its 19th century or the Predator overflights. It lives trough time because it is a timeless thing. It is a notion, idea, definition so to speak. But most of all, it is an abstract, not the reality.

  6. #1176
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    So I will go trough the Duke's points, because I think that they summarize in general, that narrative that is so widely accepted in the west. I hold no grudge against anyone, especially Duke and I would like to thank him, for summarize it quite nicely. I truly mean that.
    - Yugoslavia was firmly on the course toward breaking up with the death of Tito in 1980
    - Slovenia and Croatia were pro-Western
    - Serbia, due to historical ties and no allies elsewhere, was a pro-Russian state.
    - Bosnia was a battleground in-between
    - Serbia was seeking to expand its territory at the expense of Croatia and Bosnia
    - Serbia came into conflict with the two, with a three-way fight emerging in Bosnia
    - At the same time, NATO and the West saw an opportunity expand their geopolitical influence and recruit new allies (Croatia and Slovenia)
    - Turkey, alone among NATO powers, had its own special angle with regards to Bosnia and its (mostly nominal) Islamic population
    - Humanitarian tragedies and massacres in Bosnia captured the attention of Western politicians and public, thus eliciting sympathy
    - Overall, Serbia threw the dice, took a reckless gamble, sought territorial aggrandizement, and lost their stake, and some
    - Mostly Milosevic's fault. Though Tudjman and Izetbegović certainly weren't innocents either"
    Last edited by Versus; 22 May 18, at 17:58.

  7. #1177
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    " - Yugoslavia was firmly on the course toward breaking up with the death of Tito in 1980"

    True.

    This fact was known well prior 1980. Yugoslavia was an artificial construct from the day it was conceived as an idea. Actually, the very ground up on which this idea was conceived was specifically designed to be unstable because it wasn't based on the reality yet it was based on interests and abstracts. Thanks to the fact that reality wasn't acknowledged, the false premises were built into the plan and thus were doomed to fail from day one. Serbs, as main carriers of that idea, were destined to bear the blame for its failure the very minute they took the idea and made it to be their national priority goal. Once the national goal was replaced with the international goal, Serbs became the losers in this game and had to suffer the consequences for that choice. That choice was made in 1843 and I will deal with it quite extensively.

    " - Slovenia and Croatia were pro-Western"

    True.

    Slovenia and Croatia didn't existed as a sovereign nation states until the end of WW1. They were part of Austrian Empire and their creation was the result of Serbian army pushing with its faulty plan of liberating all south Slavs from the clutches of the Austrian empire and placing them under the Serbian rule, which was a suicidal plan as history has proved to be. It was the vanity of Serbian elite, greed and overall stupidity that allowed this plan to accrue and set in motion Serbia's downfall. The grooming of Serbian elite for this task was a long process and it was meticulously carried out by mostly by French and British elites, from the second half of the 19th century till the early 20th century. This too will be well covered in future texts.

    " - Serbia, due to historical ties and no allies elsewhere, was a pro-Russian state."

    Wrong.

    Almost all the weapons that Serbia used in its liberation efforts against Ottoman empire, came from the West, namely from Austria, France and England. During the 19th century, the entire Serbian elite was schooled in the West. Even trough out communist days of Yugoslavia, most of the politicians were schooled in the West and rarely, if any, was educated in Moscow. A bit of a prelude to the continuation of the writings. After Milos Obrenovic got the most of its demands and secured its rule, when the time came to pick a representative at the Istanbul, he didn't chose Austrians or Russians. He placed the faith of Serbia in the hands of the British Empire. We are talking first half of the 19th century here and what happened next will be quite interesting as the "Age of containment" begins. In order to keep suspense, I will say no more.

    " - Bosnia was a battleground in-between"

    Wrong.

    Bosnia was annexed by the Austrian empire, while Serbs ALREADY lived there. The uncomfortable truth about annexation of Bosnia, that Serbs don't like to hear, is that it was done with the approval and the help of Russian empire. Considering that Austria didn't recognized that fact, it took Bosnian Muslims as major factor aka the real rulers of Bosnia. This meant that Serbs had to pay double taxes, one for the Muslims and one for the Austrians. Being fed up of Muslim rule they hoped that things will be better under the civilized Austrians and got nothing in return. Therefore, Austrians were seen as just another occupation and resentments towards them started to grow. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. But again, I will write more about it in the next chapters.

    " - Serbia was seeking to expand its territory at the expense of Croatia and Bosnia"

    Wrong.

    Serbs already lived in Croatia and Bosnia for centuries. They didn't invade Croatia and Bosnia from Serbia, yet they were settled there during the Ottoman occupation by the Austrian empire to be a human shield against Ottoman expansion. In return for their service they got the lands, autonomy and tax exemptions from the Austrian empire, not Croatia, because Croatia didn't existed. Croatia didn't existed but Croats as a nation did and they didn't like it but had to agree to the terms because it was better for the Serbs to die than them. As the decline of Ottoman empire began, the need for Serbian human shield diminished and the resentment towards them started to grow among Croats. That resentment culminated in WW2, although it started in WW1, when the Croats and Bosnian Muslims started to apply their "final solution" towards Serbs and that solution was "One third of them to be converted to Catholicism, one third to be killed and one third to be expelled". It was annihilation program, with genocide and ethnic cleansing as main tools for achieving its goals. That genocide was covered up by both Vatican and British intelligence at the end of WW2 and despite US efforts to bring it to light, those efforts were sabotaged by the British and Vatican efforts and later on US elite adopted British stance in patronizing Croats that deflected to the west, in order to use them as "nightingales" against communism, completely placing aside the genocide that they committed. When the breakup time came, Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia were facing the same enemy with the same goal in mind and resisted. Serbia didn't seek any territorial expansion yet it had "responsibility to protect" Serbs in Bosnia and Croatia. However, since Serbian elite and the Serbian national goals were already "infected" with the ideology, their effort to protect Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia and later on in Kosovo, failed and were presented as aggression and conquest of Croatia and Bosnia.

    - Serbia came into conflict with the two, with a three-way fight emerging in Bosnia.

    Wrong

    Prior open hostilities began, aka before actual fighting began, Croatian elite started the cleansing operation by firing Serbs from the jobs they had just for being Serbs. In addition, many of the houses that Serbs had in Dalmatia, their legally owned and bought property and I am talking houses and properties for vacation and relaxation, were demolished and blown to bits. At least five years before first shoot was fired, Croatia already started its ethnic cleansing operation, of the "low intensity". For the Serbs whom survived the WW2 genocide, this was a signal to leave, but "voluntarily" if you know what I mean. Serbs in Croatia counted on Yugoslavian federal Army for protection. However, when it failed, it was signal to ghe Serbs in Bosnia to better start thinking in advance, so since they knew that the genocide part two was on its way, they stroke first and got labeled as aggressors.

    - At the same time, NATO and the West saw an opportunity expand their geopolitical influence and recruit new allies (Croatia and Slovenia)

    True.

    Problem is, that opportunity was seen by any means necessary. Genocide and ethnic cleansing of Serbs included.


    - Turkey, alone among NATO powers, had its own special angle with regards to Bosnia and its (mostly nominal) Islamic population

    True.

    But not only in terms of population, but also that it regards Bosnia as its proper, aka the part of Ottoman empire.

    - Humanitarian tragedies and massacres in Bosnia captured the attention of Western politicians and public, thus eliciting sympathy

    True.

    But only Bosnian and Croatian tragedies, without any concerns for the Serbian side their tragedies and massacres.

    - Overall, Serbia threw the dice, took a reckless gamble, sought territorial aggrandizement, and lost their stake, and some

    Serbia didn't threw anything, as Serbia didn't wanted the war. The war was inevitable and its elite tried to profit from it, mainly in financial term. At the end, it was the poor that paid the price.

    - Mostly Milosevic's fault. Though Tudjman and Izetbegović certainly weren't innocents either"

    True and false in the same time.

    Milosevic was an opportunist whom used real threat towards Serbs to get personal gain. At the end he and we lost everything, but it was a rigged game form the start and he played his role flawlessly.
    Last edited by Versus; 22 May 18, at 20:07.

  8. #1178
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    I think that most Russians have no idea where Serbia is and who Serbs are nor do they care about us as much as our sad "nationalists" like to believe. They love us so much that thanks to Bondsteel base, Kosovo and thus Serbia are now on their ICBM target list. So if this thing really goes trough the roof, the only love we would get from Russia would be one Topol-M or Bulava missile. Also they love us so much that they have chosen an Albanian singer from Kosovo, whom desecrated our church, to be a lead singer for the upcoming football championship. During the war of the 90es, Russia sold S-300 missile system to Croatia, not to Serbia.

    The foreign unit that has most drills with Serbian army is Ohio national guard.

    There is no love in these stories, only money and only interests. Cold and calculated.

  9. #1179
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    Our king...dancing with the Queen of England. But not kazachok.
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  10. #1180
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  11. #1181
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    "

    Problem is, that opportunity was seen by any means necessary. Genocide and ethnic cleansing of Serbs included.
    Bullshit. I was there on a couple of occasions IFOR, SFOR and KFOR. There was enough NATO power there that if we wanted to ethnically cleanse the Serbs, you wouldn't be posting right now.

    - Humanitarian tragedies and massacres in Bosnia captured the attention of Western politicians and public, thus eliciting sympathy

    True.

    But only Bosnian and Croatian tragedies, without any concerns for the Serbian side their tragedies and massacres.
    Well its kind of hard to have sympathy when you have serbian snipers shooting women and children on the streets of Sarajevo every day. And that being shown on TV across the world.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  12. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    Bullshit. I was there on a couple of occasions IFOR, SFOR and KFOR. There was enough NATO power there that if we wanted to ethnically cleanse the Serbs, you wouldn't be posting right now.



    Well its kind of hard to have sympathy when you have serbian snipers shooting women and children on the streets of Sarajevo every day. And that being shown on TV across the world.
    I am not talking about NATO I am talking about 1945. True for the Serbian snipers, but have you ever heard about 7019 Serbs killed in 126 Sarajevo's prisons and camps, held by Muslims? Close to 700 killed by Muslim snipers. Saw videos of them jumping on a pregnant Serbian woman stomach? Decapitations? For us, Sarajevo was the first case when we meet Barret' M-82s, from the Muslim side.
    Last edited by Versus; 03 Jun 18, at 23:39.

  13. #1183
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    This is what I am talking about.
    http://archive.li/Ltvgy
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  14. #1184
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    And so it begins
    http://rs.n1info.com/a395855/English...-pipeline.html

    the sum of all fears...right on time.

  15. #1185
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    Aaaand the proper response from our side, in the form of...a pocket submarine. Priceless.
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