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Thread: Serbia-the autopsy report

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Macedonia is currently claim. But they had their share of conflict and it is bound to happen again (sorry for being honest Doktor). The thing that stopped this line of confrontations was 9/11 and nothing else.
    I share that view Versus, nothing to be sorry about. In 2001 things ended all of a sudden without clear victor. It has to be settled and it wont be us who will start the second wave.
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  2. #32
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    The flight of Phoenix.

    The clashes between Serbs and Albanians started the very moment when the Serbian and Montenegro armies set foot on Kosovo. In their national euphoria and hate towards Ottomans and Muslims, they pillaged and burned everything that reminded them of Ottomans. Albanians whom inhabited the Kosovo were also seen as intruders and being Muslim, were seen as “the others” and therefore scheduled for annihilation. Again, plains were easy to cleans but the mountains became the obstacle.
    This happened during the first Balkan war.
    The period of World War One, introduced the Austro-Hungarian domination on Kosovo. Both Bulgarians and Austro-Hungarians were seen as liberators. For the Albanians in plains that is, the ones in the mountains saw them as invaders and took hostile actions against them. Austrian-Hungarians took the efforts to build Albanian schools, allowed Albanian language to be taught and supported Albanian national agenda as long as it served them. Albanian population was predominantly Muslim in the planes, but also there ware Catholic and Orthodox Albanians with them. But the Albanians in the mountains were Albanian tribesmen. Pure Albanians.

    The formation and formulation of Albanian national interests, the articulation in other words, happened on June 10th 1878, with the formation of League of Prizren. Their goals political goals were formulated
    seven days later on June 17th 1878. Those goals were:

    1.Albanians will not allow that their lands are given to Serbia,Montenegro,Greece or any other country.
    2.All territories that are inhabited by Albanians and are currently under Serbian and Montenegro, need to be returned into Albanian possession.
    3.Representatives and emissaries need to be sent to forging countries, palaces, parliaments, assemblies and on the conferences.
    4.Albanians need to govern on their own, they need autonomy form Ottomans and the Ottoman Empire should not sent its clerks to govern the Albanians, yet Albanians will elect them on their own.
    5.Ottomans should not ask for army recruits or taxes from Albanians.

    With these requests, Albanians sent their representatives to the Berlin Congress, the event that will define the Balkan borders and recognize new states. On the Berlin Congress their requests were ignored. The German chancellor Otto Von Bismarck even argued that Albanian nation does not exist.

    From that moment, hostilities began to mount. In 1879 Albanian uprising accrued and in 1880 all Albanian population separated itself from Ottoman rule, by forming the parallel state system . Ottomans sent troops to suppress them and after bloody battles with rebels, they were able to gain control. They sent 3000 Albanians to Turkey but new hostilities emerged and new clashes accrued. It all culminated in 1909, when a large uprising accrued in Kosovo and spread out to Skopje, the today's Macedonia capital city. The uprising was crushed in 1910. During that uprising the Albanians were 100% in control over the territory they took.

    After the First World War ended, Albanians continued to fight against Serbs. Serbian policy towards them was brutal and inhumane. Serbs wanted to give the lands in Kosovo to Serbian war veterans as a form of compensation for their efforts in war and started the process of colonization of Kosovo with those men. The Albanian resistance was fierce and the hate toward Serbs grew. Acts of savage crimes, rape and murder accrued on both sides. The Kosovo Albanians than formed the new organization, called the Kosovo committee, on November 7th 1918, which was tasked to unite all lands that Albanians considered theirs and join them with Albania. In 1921 first significant clashes are accruing in Kosovo. The Albanian rebels, known as kašak, started to kidnap, assassinate, pillage and burn colonist homes, collaborators, state clerks, police officers and soldiers. Anything that hand any connection with Serbian state or might have, was considered hostile and there fore eliminated. At that time, the Albanian rebels controlled pretty much the entire Kosovo, Serbian influence was reduced to cities. During the 1921-23 the first region under exclusive Albanian control was formed, near the Junik mountains and called “small Albania”. The prequel to this territory formation was the great uprising in 1920 of Albanians in Kosovo, known as “Lapian rebellion”. The Serbian response was brutal and devastating,anyone whom was considered to be a rebel, supported them was either purged or killed. Their homes and farmlands were torched.

    Serbs tried to calm the situation down by abolishing the rebels but their attacks continued until 1924 when a massive Yugoslavian army intervention was performed and with the heavy and devastating artillery support, the rebels were broken.

    The rebellion was supported by Italians and Bulgarians at the time, since both countries had their interests in weakening newly formed Yugoslavian state.

    Serbia has fulfilled its goal, it did unite all Serbian lands but they were not called Great Serbia, they were called the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. But the other nations didn't fell in love with the Serbs, moreover they started to see them as oppressors and the nationalism was rising again. Serbs and their Yugoslavian idea was just an idea of Great Serbia, that is what Garasanin plan was talking about. But we are not Serbs, we are Croats and Slovenians, we want our homeland back. Serbs were shocked, how they can hate us after all we have done for them, we are the liberators, heroes we gave them their freedom at the cost of our lives, how come they don't respect that? Do they want to be servants again, maybe they are genetically servants not freedom lovers like us? Ethnic tensions rose by each passing year. Serbian weak cultural influence failed on every step it took in the attempt to preserve Yugoslavian idea since others knew what Serbs didn't. They knew the Garasanin plan, so every Serbian effort to preserve Yugoslavia was seen as a lie, as a trickery of Serbian nationalism which wants to dominate. In order to counter the nationalistic strife, Serbian monarchy which ruled the Yugoslavia placed all budget surplus in the Army and weapons. That weakened the economy of the country in the time of roaring 20es, where the rest of the world was flying on the wings of technological progress. Others than started to see Serbs as their economical oppressors as well as national so tensions grew.

    On the East, Russia became communist state,classless society and an absolute horror for old Europe that was based on class system. Yugoslavia was large country, ruled by Serbian monarch that had reputation to be Russophile so again the semi hostile stance was took.

    Frozen from fear, eyes wide open, Europe was watching the Red Monster rising on the East. It was obsessed with it. Sitting in the middle was the Germany, full of grief,defeated but not conquered, humiliated and lost. In Austria, one man was obsessed with defeat and the causes for that defeat, he was working hard to figure out the causes for it. His name was Adolf Hitler,
    Last edited by Versus; 29 Aug 11, at 08:09.

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Rudolph Archibald Reiss

    Was the German forensic doctor and the man whom formed the forensic division within Serbian police.
    Born in on July 8th, Hechtsberg,Baden, Germany, Reiss was called to Serbia to investigate war crimes committed by the Austro-Hungarian army, which was defeated at the begging of the war. When the Germany joined the war, Reiss stayed with Serbs and was with them trough out the whole war, from the retreat to liberation. He wasn't captured or detained by the Serbs, he stayed because of what he saw. The war crimes. After the war, he tried to warn Serbian public indirectly, that their plan of unification will not work, that the Garasanin plan was broken and that Serbs are running into a trap but he was soon dismissed by the trendy Serbs, the bubble heads whom wanted to be fancy and dandy and to create modern pan-Slavic state. Those fancy Serbs, the trend lovers, the ones whom live for the moment, the quasi intelligentsia, shallow in their understanding of the context, didn't liked him. They didn't liked him because he was pointing at the uncomfortable truth. That Serbia has a serious problem with value system, that it has weak culture and that needs serious, unbiased and coherent reconstruction. But that was too hard for the dandy bubble heads, it required real work. Bubble heads were lazy rich snobs, whom despised the majority of Serbian population, the peasants, the peasants whom gave their sons,brothers and fathers for the country, the peasants whom fed them, the reality of Serbia. They despised them so much, that the Serbian war veterans were treated the worst in the entire Europe. No respect, no compassion, nothing just because they were not IN.

    Reiss, was able only to conclude the time of death of Serbia. Trough its bubble headed intelligentsia the epic spirit left the tormented body, leaving the empty shell of a serbian peasant.. The cause of death is autoimmune disease called the Draft,the Frankenstein creation,made with so little effort and interest. Ilija Garasanin set the Serbia on a war path, because he defined the Serbia as small and weak. It wasn't to his liking. By defining Serbia as small and weak, the only way to became big and strong was trough military conquest for which it never had the capacity. It was always to the last men, to the last bullet, to the last dime. So after the war ended, poverty remained, so after every war, although it got bigger in territory it got weaker in people whom were supposed to inhabit that territory. There was no real gain, except that bubble headed, wealthy rulers got bigger maps each time. Maps with territory but not with population. That factor was constantly missing, inhabitants per square mile.

    Rudolph Archibald Reiss, took his forensic reports and presented them to the Swiss red cross, where his findings were dismissed as false. It is not possible, that is Austro-Hungarian Imperial Army, the Hapsburg monarchy, the oldest ruling monarchy in the world, the pinnacle of European civilization. Reiss was a German, and with German accuracy he gave the time of death, the weapons used, the names of the commanding officers, everything to the last detail. With photographs.
    Here are the details form the report:

    “Pages 70-73:
    Breziak consists of three villages, viz.: Slatina, Donja and Gornja Nedeljitza. In this district the Austrians killed 54 persons in various ways. Most of them were disemboweled with great sabers that were carried by your prisoners; this weapon has the following dimensions:
    width of blade, 5 cm; thickness of the back of the blade, 0.7 cm; length of blade, 46 cm; total length of the sabre, 63 cm. I append the names of some of the killed, with a brief specification of their wounds:

    [Serbian woman] Anitza Yezditch, aged 32, eyes put out, nose and ears cut off.
    Simo Yezditch, aged 14, nose and ears cut off.
    Yelka Domitch, aged 13, nose and ears cut off.
    Tzvetko Pavlovitch, eyes put out.
    Krsman Kalabitch, aged 56, eyes put out, nose and ears cut off.
    Smiliana Vasilievitch, aged 48, eyes put out.
    [Serbian woman] Mirosava Vasilievitch, aged 21, violated by about 40 soldiers, genital organs cut off, her hair pushed down the vagina. She was finally disemboweled, but only died immediately after this being done.
    Lazar Petrovitch, aged 46, one hand cut off and eyes put out. (*)
    Militza Petrovitch, aged 45, breasts cut off. (*) “

    Original book:Report upon the atrocities committed by the Austro-Hungarian army during the first invasion of Serbia Rodolphe Archibald Reiss - Simpkin, Marshall, Hamilton, Kent & Co., Ltd., London en 1916.

    But what Reiss failed to notice was that those massacres were carried out by Croats and Bosinan Muslims in the Austro-Hungarian army.
    Last edited by Versus; 27 Aug 11, at 17:41.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    World War 2

    Yugoslavian King Alexander was assassinated in France, by the nationalists from Croatia and Macedonia, while the main support came form Mussolini. By the time he was dead, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia already had paramilitary formations in every ethnic group. The most prominent ones were in Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo. All of these groups had their backing from the outside, mostly from Italy, Germany, Russia and UK. They all had plans, they all knew what they want and how they want that to be done. The scene before the World War Two was pretty much known. Italy and Nazi Germany were poised to reshape the world according to their liking. They glorified the nation over anything else, so naturally nationalist from every country found them to be most appealing and fought for their support.

    So Alexander's death wasn't anything out of the ordinary. When the World War 2 started, the national programs were activated and according to the previous dispositions created by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, simply continued along that path. The World War 2 came to Kingdom of Yugoslavia on April 6 1941. Under the command of General Alexander L÷hr, whom was the Austrian Air Force commander and later on commander of Luftflotte IV, Germany began the airstrikes on Yugoslavia. The attack began at 6:30 AM, on April 6th 1941 and its first target was the capital city, Belgrade. Since the city was declared to be an open city a couple of days earlier, much of the inhabitants were totally unprepared and were in their beds when the raid came. On the April 6th four raids were carried out, dropping 440 tons of incendiary ordinance. Aside from 2274 killed, the national library was destroyed, together with 300.000 books among which many from medieval ages. In other words, our written heritage. The land operations ended on April 18th 1941.

    The territory of Yugoslavia was divided among occupied parties, Germany, Italy, Bulgaria and Hungary Those parties also created their local satellite states, the Independent Republic of Croatia and the Great Albania. Serbia was under German and Bulgarian occupation.

    During the World War 2, the nationalistic butchering and ethnic cleansing was on steroids, among all sides.
    It was literary the meat grinder and scene of most sadistic crimes known to man. It was the super eruption of hate.

    In Serbia after the collapse of Royal Army, some of their units turned into guerillas, that like to call themselves Chetniks. Also Chetniks divided among themselves into different fractions. Also in Serbia communist, partisan movement was formed that fought both Chetniks and Nazis. The Serbian collaborators for the first time offered dangerous mixture of radical church teaching and nationalism, forming the clerical nazi copy of Nazi Germany and Croatian nationalism. They were responsible for extermination of Jews, Roma and communists.

    In Croatia, the Croatian nationalists formed Ustase, a radical clero nationalist movement whom had a single goal, to ethnically cleans the Croatia from all non Croats. They formed concentration camps where they killed Serbs, Roma, Jews or Communists. But the special emphasis was on Serbs which they called Valch's.

    In Kosovo, Albanians joined with the Italians and started ethnic cleansing of Kosovo, Southern Serbia, Sanjak and Montenegro. The official formation was 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian).

    In Bosnia, Muslims formed the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) which carried out the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. Muslims in Bosnia at the time, called themselves Muslim Croats.

    The Serbian Chetniks fought all of them and in retaliation carried out ethnic cleansing as well.

    Partisans fought all of them and were supported by the allies. After the World War 2 ended, they emerged victorious and formed new Yugoslavia, this time called Socialistic Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
    Last edited by Versus; 27 Aug 11, at 17:52.

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    I will stop now since this pretty much ends the history of the conflict. The period of SFRY is a separate section that will come next and it will end up with the civil war. Kosovo conflict will be separate section.

    World War 2 was the pivoting point. On the surface it was the world conflict, beneath it in Yugoslavia it was an ethnic conflict and it was ideological conflict. So in fact, in Yugoslavia, world war was fought, ethnic war was fought and also civil war was fought. Communists history exaggerate the role of Communist party and places nationalists in the same basket as Nazi collaborators. Communists saw themselves as progressive movement and all nationalists as regressive movement. But that wasn't the case. It was something totally different and it is shown in the forensic analysis of the crimes.

    Croats and Muslims didn't have to mutilate Serbian civilians under the Austro-Hungarian Army, when they invaded Serbia. Civilians were not a threat to them, they were not armed. So why that happened?
    There were no Serbo-Yugo-Chetniks than, no Croatian land was touched by Serbian shelling like it was in WW2 and during the civil war.

    The reason is hate. Croats hate Serbs. The hate them at the national level, because they are Serbs, they hate them at the religious level, because they are Orthodox Christians, they hate them at the civilization level-since they belong to the eastern culture. There is absolutely no connection between Croats and Serbs. Unlike Albanians whom don't even recognize Serbs as humans, Croatians are a bit better, they consider Serbs subhumans. The reason why that thin connection exist is language. Croats understand Serbs and Serbs understand Croats. Now, I am not saying that Serbian language and Croatian language are the same, but they do understand each other, for the most part.

    By analyzing the crimes, I came to conclusion that those are religious-ritual murders They are performed physically and spiritually. They are performed in such way, not just to kill a person but to denote it as a human being. To kill totally everything that person is. To dehumanize its existence.
    So they are not just act of psychotic violence and sadism, they have a purpose. And the purpose is to send a message that they don't want that other to exist at all.

    Ever again.

  6. #36
    Se˝or Contributor Senior Contributor BD1's Avatar
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    my 18-year old uncle was conscripted to SS in 1944. and pretty much after that there was no more information whatsoever, but one of the last things that the family knew, was that he might be going to somewhere in Yugoslavia. did he even leave Estonia is not known, but i┤ve always thought that this destination would have been same hell, just a bit different tune...
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

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  7. #37
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Versus,

    While I agree with most of the written there are some things, that might have been distorted by the propaganda during the years.

    Many of these are not vital about the Serbo-Kosovar conflict, but still:

    Once the Serbs started fighting, any other nation that laid at their path, saw them as conquerors and not the liberators and developed the hostile feelings. Serbs straighten that feeling with their epic fantasy and delusions of grandeur, the thought that they are the first and chosen ones and that therefore they have the right to govern others. All others whom rebelled against them were considered lesser beings and were dealt with brute and excessive force.
    Macedonians greeted Serb armies as liberators (we did the same with Bulgarians in 1941, as we are naive people), the later ruling led to hate and revolt.

    ...and the only free states were Serbia and Montenegro at the time. The Austrian-Hungarian Empire, Germany, France and Great Britain were very worried with this, since they saw the Russian influence spreading to fast. Serbia was Slavic, Orthodox and free and Europe of that time saw it as the Russian outpost and took hostile stance towards it. From that point, we will become like a little Russians to Europe and the Europe would treat us as such till this day. But primary Russian interest in the Balkans wasn't the Serbia.

    It was Bulgaria.
    Bulgaria was and still is considered a Slavic state. At the time Bulgaria was ruled by a German king.

    The second Balkan war was fought between former allies, Bulgaria on one side and Serbia,Greece and Montenegro on the other. At the end of the war, Rumania attacked the Bulgaria and hasted the Bulgarian defeat. The cause for the war was Bulgarian dissatisfaction with the territories it got from the Ottomans and wanted to take them from Serbs by force. It was a brief clash but after it ended, the Austrian-Hungarian Empire became very very edgy, since it saw Serbian expansion go swiftly and rapidly right in its doorstep. Also, as I said before, it considered Serbia to be an Russian satellite and that made it to be even more edgy.
    Basically, all of the above mentioned countries (except Montenegro and later Romania) were not happy with their share of Macedonia

    The end of World War I will unite the southern Slavs into a single state, the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenians, which will later became the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
    All of a sudden, no Montenegro on the map. Yet Serbia "liberated them" Just pointing why other nations were not so happy.
    Again, you are forgetting Bulgaria as a Slav and Orthodox state.

    In Kosovo, Albanians joined with the Italians and started ethnic cleansing of Kosovo, Southern Serbia, Sanjak and Montenegro. The official formation was 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian).
    Katchaks or Balistas terrorized Albanians as well. Also in Macedonia.

    Yugoslavian King Alexander was assassinated in France, by the nationalists from Croatia and Macedonia, while the main support came form Mussolini. By the time he was dead, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia already had paramilitary formations in every ethnic group. The most prominent ones were in Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo. All of these groups had their backing from the outside, mostly from Italy, Germany, Russia and UK.
    Italy supported Albanians, Germans supported Croats, UK and Russia supported the respective Serbian formations (UK the Cetniks, Russians the Partisans), Macedonians and Bosnians were supported only by the Yugoslav Communist Party.

    You will notice the last two never had pro-axis movement or collaborators.

    Slovenians couldn't go to the toilet without being spot by at least 3 German soldiers, so it's no wonder they had no significant movement there.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  8. #38
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Versus,

    While I agree with most of the written there are some things, that might have been distorted by the propaganda during the years.

    Many of these are not vital about the Serbo-Kosovar conflict, but still:


    Macedonians greeted Serb armies as liberators (we did the same with Bulgarians in 1941, as we are naive people), the later ruling led to hate and revolt.



    Bulgaria was and still is considered a Slavic state. At the time Bulgaria was ruled by a German king.


    Basically, all of the above mentioned countries (except Montenegro and later Romania) were not happy with their share of Macedonia


    All of a sudden, no Montenegro on the map. Yet Serbia "liberated them" Just pointing why other nations were not so happy.
    Again, you are forgetting Bulgaria as a Slav and Orthodox state.


    Katchaks or Balistas terrorized Albanians as well. Also in Macedonia.


    Italy supported Albanians, Germans supported Croats, UK and Russia supported the respective Serbian formations (UK the Cetniks, Russians the Partisans), Macedonians and Bosnians were supported only by the Yugoslav Communist Party.

    You will notice the last two never had pro-axis movement or collaborators.

    Slovenians couldn't go to the toilet without being spot by at least 3 German soldiers, so it's no wonder they had no significant movement there.
    Yes, I agree with that, but my intention was to show the general position between Serbs and Albanians. The point was to fully describe the Serbian national euphoria of that time and how it reflected on the course of events. Now I am digging out the first 20 years of Socialist rule...Oh man, that was insanity.

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Yes, I agree with that, but my intention was to show the general position between Serbs and Albanians. The point was to fully describe the Serbian national euphoria of that time and how it reflected on the course of events. Now I am digging out the first 20 years of Socialist rule...Oh man, that was insanity.
    As you can imagine I have a lot of friends and relatives in Serbia and never managed to understand Serbian politicians (and the Church).

    Thank you for the Serbian POV with the documents and events that are not well known (to me) and this just proves my theory, which is no matter how great the people there are always few hot-heads that will fvck up everything thinking how the very people is the chosen one (same goes to us)

    You started this as an autopsy of a living corpse. You are on the road to plug off the living corpse, clean the rubbish and the bad smell and move on with head up, something I can't tell for us.

    As for the Albanians, I foresee their decline in the forthcoming decades as they will do something stupid on the wing of their euphoria, too.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #40
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    SFRY dreams and nightmares.

    Crimes committed during the World War 2 were never properly investigated. That left a deep resentment among population, especially within Serbian population. Trials were held but not as much as they should. Many of the crimes were pushed under the rug. Everything was done post haste. Together with evacuation of war criminals from Yugoslavia, which were transported all across the globe. The reason for this was quite simple. Under the threat from Soviet union, Yugoslavia needed to be formed fast and the genocide and ethnic cleansing committed during the WW2 were the main obstacle since, it their purest form document the futility of idea of Yugoslavia.

    After the war ended, things got seriously nutty.

    Serbs whom were cleansed from Kosovo by the Albanians during the W.W 2 were prohibited to return to their lands by the Communist party under the communist party Directive 153, adopted on March 6th 1945 and remained active till August 1945. The official explanation for this, was that the colonists were considered to be Serbian ultra nationalists and that the program of colonization was too nationalistic and unjust. However, the real reason was, that the Albanians whom joined the Communist Partisans, rebelled, since the Kosovo got the status of province and not the republic. Together with the rebelled Albanian partisans, Albanian population rebelled too. Since the communist partisans were the official army of the communist Yugoslavia, this event was the act of mutiny. Considering the moment and the nature of communist regime, this had to be dealt with swift justice by the internal security of the communist party. Military rule was imposed on Kosovo in February 1945.

    In order to calm the situation, Yugoslavian president Tito, allowed the Albanians whom settled in Kosovo during the Italian occupation, aka the illegal immigrants, to stay on the land. Also, Tito and communist leadership in Tirana under the Enver Hoxa regime. made an agreement for soft border policy that allowed unrestricted movement on the Kosovo-Albanian border. Waves of illegal immigration poured in after that decision. The first major problem accrued in 1948 after the Yugoslavia broke up its ties with the Moscow. Albania stayed at the Moscow side and became the political problem for Yugoslavia. Border security was strengthen, but due to the nature of geography it was full of gaps. Albanians continued to immigrate to Kosovo with the slower paste.
    From 1944-1952, on the territory of Kosovo, Albanian nationalist, known as Balistas, were active and presented constant threat to civilians. That is why the Yugoslavian secret service sent its units to fight them in the semi hazy, secret war. During that period 37.000 Albanians left the country.
    The period from 1944 to 1966 was in fact a period of constant oppression aimed at the Albanian population on Kosovo. But that wasn't as much nationally based oppression, aka Albanians were not oppressed because they were Albanians but because of the ideology differences between Yugoslavian president Tito and Stalinist regime of Enver Hoxa. After the 1966 things changed significantly after the hard liner Aleksandar Rankovic, the chief of Yugoslavia State Secret Service was dismissed. The iron rule on Kosovo weakened. Although there was more Albanians than Serbs in Kosovo at that time, their influence was opposite. That was changed in the Albanian favor.

    On November 27th 1968 massive demonstrations accrued in Kosovo, demanding the change of Kosovo status from federal province to federal republic. The next day, at dawn November 28th Federal Army units intervened with T-55 tanks in a effort to demonstrate force. After these demonstrations Kosovo status in the Federation was elevated to the Socialist Autonomous province of Kosovo. In that decade from 1960 to 1980, 103.000 Serbs and Montenegrians moved from Kosovo. The primary reason was loss of jobs, loss in security, constant gang rapes, brutal beatings, pillage of crops and murders by the Albanians. In that time, Albanian population had enormous birth rate that outnumbered Serbian 9 to 1.

    Another key event happened in 1980. Yugoslavian president Tito died, leaving the whole nation in shock.

    In the 1981 Albanian population in Kosovo was 77.8% and new protests emerged. The federal Army intervened again with tanks. The demonstrations were peaceful at first, but escalated later on. There were attempts to sack weapon caches from the National Defense stockpiles. The demonstrators requested reforms, jobs but also demands for changing the status to Republic. Actually these demonstrations were all about gaining the status of the Republic, since by the new constitution rule, form 1974, Republics have the right to proclaim independence. The demonstrations were poised to turn into riots and uprisings so military force was used in suppressing them. From 1981 to 1988 the role of the federal military in Kosovo was crucial as the tensions began to rose by each passing year. They culminated with strike of miners at the mine near Pristina whom were opposing to the new constitution of Serbia, announced by the chief of the Serbian communist party, Slobodan Milosevic. He requested the usage of military and organized the rally in Belgrade where one million people were present. The Federal Government authorized the usage of army and the Albanian strike was crushed. Unofficial reports suggest that the miners were actually armed and that there was exchange of gunfire at the mine.

    On June 28th Slobodan Milosevic held the, now historic, rally at Gazimestan, that launched him to the very top of Serbian politics. The June 28th was the date on which the Battle of Kosovo happened,600 years ago, the date itself is one of the biggest religious holidays in the Serbian orthodox church.

    I remember that day, my mother was crying and my father looked very proud. For me it looked totally backward and dumb, with a bunch of people yelling like apes. We argued that day. I am not trying to exaggerate this moment or lie about it. There was something evil behind all that, something heavy and deeply retrograde in that event.

    That was the day when the beast was set loose.
    Last edited by Versus; 28 Aug 11, at 11:18.

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    As you can imagine I have a lot of friends and relatives in Serbia and never managed to understand Serbian politicians (and the Church).

    Thank you for the Serbian POV with the documents and events that are not well known (to me) and this just proves my theory, which is no matter how great the people there are always few hot-heads that will fvck up everything thinking how the very people is the chosen one (same goes to us)

    You started this as an autopsy of a living corpse. You are on the road to plug off the living corpse, clean the rubbish and the bad smell and move on with head up, something I can't tell for us.

    As for the Albanians, I foresee their decline in the forthcoming decades as they will do something stupid on the wing of their euphoria, too.
    Ah the Church, Church is my specialty. It is unavoidable factor in the whole story, the glue that binds the military, the police and the state into one. I am extremely critical towards it. I am working on the Tito cult and afterward I will end the history chapter with Milosevic and wars that he fought. Church will come at the end, since in that order,it is the frame for the picture.
    Last edited by Versus; 28 Aug 11, at 11:14.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Josip Broz Tito.

    Kosovo was the launching pad for Slobodan Milosevic. He used the Serbian frustration over Albanian domination as a main fuel for his ascend. With that he opened the infamous “national question” in Yugoslavia. That lead to domino effect that destroyed the cult of Tito.

    Josip Broz nicknamed Tito was the leader of Communist partizan movement during the World War 2 and after the war ended he was the lifetime president of Socialistic Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

    He was born in a village of Kumrovec,on May 7th 1892 in today's Croatia, but at the time that was Austrian-Hungarian Empire. He participated in the operations in Serbia during the First World War, in the 42 .Croatian division nick named “Devil's division” that was responsible for the massacres that Reiss was describing in his report. There he was promoted to the rank of sergeant major. In the 1915 he was transferred to the Gallica front and than to Carpatian camp where he was captured by the Imperial Russian Army. Broz had exceptional organization qualities, since he was an very intelligent man, prone to technical or mechanical logic. During his captivity he organized the prisoners which elected him to be their leader. As he was marked as a trouble maker by the guards he was punished and thrown into the dungeon. He was freed by the Bolsheviks in 1917 and from that moment he accepted communist ideas. In 1920 he left the Soviet Union and returned to Yugoslavia where he became the member of communist party. Trough out 1921 to 1927 he worked in various factories and shipyards, but was discharged as a communist agitator. In 1927 he got the high position in the communist committee of Zagreb and he was supported by the Comintern 1928. He lead anti government demonstrations after the assassination of King Alexander in France, in June 1928. After his arrest he was sentenced to 5 years in prison as a communist terrorist. In 1934 he went to Vienna where he was admitted into the Committee of Yugoslavia Communist party where he got the nick name Tito. Translated to English, his nick name means You(do)That. In February 1935 he went to Moscow where he took another nickname, this time it was Walther. In 1936 he returned to Yugoslavia in order to manage the Communist party actions and in 1937 he formed the communist party headquarters in Slovenia and Croatia. In 1938, he emerges as the chief to Yugoslavia Communist Party and after the war broke out, on the July 4th 1941 in Belgrade the Communist Party of Yugoslavia brought the decision to confront the Nazis and their collaborators.

    During the World War 2, Tito lead Yugoslavian partisans in their guerrilla fight against occupational forces. In the first years of war, Partisans and Chetniks in Serbia tried to make agreement that would make them allies and allow joint operations against Nazis. Both attempts to come to the common ground failed and hostilities between Communist partizans and Chetniks began. They will continue till the end of the war. Since Serbia and Montenegro were mostly under the Chetnik control, Tito moved to Bosnia, since it was more suitable for guerrilla warfare, due to geography. In two large and bloody battles, fought on the Sutjeska and Neretva rivers, partisans won those battles. After the battle of Neretva river, the Chetniks were dismissed and abandoned by the allies as factor in Yugoslavia, which lead to their defeat at the end. Tito was able to gain support from the Allies and was assured his leader of Yugoslavia after the War ended.

    After the War, Josip Broz Tito lead well balanced policy and under his rule Yugoslavia thrived, becoming the socialist wonder in the world. But during the 1960es it started to decay.

    There is a CIA report that I am unable to find form that period that describes in great detail the state of Yugoslavia at that moment. Ones whom read it, before it was removed, said basically that the by the 1960 communist ideas were abandoned and that Yugoslavia in the ideological sense was a corpse. If anyone can find it I would be very grateful. The name of the file is esau-46.pdf. The link is www.foia.cia.gov/CPE/ESAU/esau-46.pdf

    This report matches perfectly with my bubble heads theory and the true cause for dysfunction of the Balkans.

    Anyhow, when Tito died, Yugoslavia was in deep decay and the nationalistic spirits were rising from beneath.
    Last edited by Versus; 28 Aug 11, at 13:00.

  13. #43
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    As far as Albanian population decline, I hardly doubt that my good Doktor. But stay tuned, the projection will be given at the end, in the conclusion.

  14. #44
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    The end of Serbian history.

    Like any house that is build up on defiled graveyard, tormented, restless spirits are common appearance in that house.

    Slobodan Milosevic ascended to the throne of Serbian policy on Kosovo at the right moment, using the right means but in the wrong time. No wonder, considering the Serbian problem with understanding the time. What he did was to defile the Kosovo graveyard and awaken the dead heroes by the dark energy of ethnic hate He used the most destructive approach possible, playing with the strongest card. The victim card. His ideology was based on feeling that a great injustice was done to Serbs and that Serbs are poor victims of Evils that rule the world. He started to remind the Serbs at the crimes done by Croats,Muslims and Albanians from the past,pulling those crimes out of the context and placing them into his context of reality. The fact that during world war two, genocide was carried out over Serbian population is true, but it is also true that we did the same things to others as well. Again, as always the lack of critical thinking and the ability to grasp the context of the events was there, so Milosevic policy was toward glorifying the Serbian suffering and sacrifices at the expense of clear, coherent reconstruction of the history. The history became the tool, the semi real, fancy history. Defiled history.
    The role of Church, national feelings were glorified and new neo historical movements were made. Their main goal was to promote the idea of Serbs as victims that are insulted and demand apology. That the others need to confess what they did to them and apologize for that. Which basically was the demand for respect. This idea was so insane, so dumb that it is surreal. But Serbs were determined to get that respect and recognition. So these requests were heard all across Yugoslavia and provoked adequate response. Which was F...you, with a big F.

    The hostilities started where they always start. With the economy. There were massive layoffs of all kinds based on nationality. The ones whom were laid off were seen as unqualified and lazy, unworthy with a mandatory national label first. Same purges went within the military. This process is well known as Serbisation of institutions. Situation continued to escalate by each passing month.

    Before I start with the civil war in Yugoslavia, I have to explain how the defense system was organized.
    Yugoslavia had two “formations” for defense. The fedral army, which was called Yugoslavia People Army or (JNA ) and the Territorial Defense (TO). The task of federal army was to secure borders and in case the lines were breached, the advancing enemy will be confronted with the territorial defense. Each republic had its territorial defense and they were in fact, armies for each republic. All armed forces of former Yugoslavian republics, except Serbia and to some extent Croatia and Kosovo KLA, will grow from these formations one way or another.

    Slovenia was the first one to go.

    On the December 23. 1990 Slovenia declared its independence. Prior to the declaration of independence Slovenia developed the tactical plan that would enable it to stall the Yugoslav People's Army, which was vastly superior in all aspects, when compared to the territorial defense of Slovenia.
    The main tactics used in Slovenian ten day war was to encircle the barracks of JNA and to stop armored advances of JNA, with roadblocks and anti tank weapons. Everything went according to Slovenian plan. The JNA units were encircled, water,electricity and food were cut off and the units inside were exposed to psychological warfare. Roads were blocked so JNA attempted to resupply them via helicopters. Slovenians allowed the helicopters to fly to barracks and than shoot them down with stingers. Tanks were than sent to aid the troops but Slovenians used heavy land cruisers to block the roads and destroyed the tanks with armbrust missiles. The JNA tanks were unable to move due to the geography. JNA tried to take border crossings but it was attacked with the anti tank missiles. Without infantry support, JNA tanks were easy targets for the Slovenian TO armed with the most advanced anti tank system of that time.

    The conflict lasted from June 26th to July 7th 1990. In that period JNA lost 31 tank, 32 APC, 4 helicopters, 44 of its service members were killed, 146 were wounded and 4692 were taken prisoners.
    For the rest of the republics that were soon to follow the Slovenian path, the third army in Europe was just a paper tiger. Confidence in the military dropped, everyone was in disbelief and the biggest disappointment was in Serbia.
    In Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic tried to represent himself as a new Tito and defended the Yugoslavian idea. Slovenia declared independence on the referendum,which was the democratic act. After it declared independence, the Federal army units didn't retreat from Slovenia and Slovenia attacked them.
    Serbs were told that Slovenia has simply stolen the part of Yugoslavia and called it Slovenia. It did it under the banner of democracy, it killed our soldiers in the name of democracy. From that moment, Serbs started to hate west and western way and especially the Democracy. Since Democracy is the direct threat to everything they believed in. And after the Germany recognized the Slovenia, Serbs got the source of all evil. The Germany and the EU.

    Next was Croatia.

    Croatia followed the same steps and tactics like Slovenia did. Their president Franjo Tudjman organized his HDZ party (Croatian Democratic Union). The HDZ party proclaimed said that it wants to be independent state. This statement triggered the Serbian memories of Croatian Genocide during the WW2 which was done under the Independent State of Croatia. Serbs, the decedents of exiles from Kosovo battle, the ones whom were settled in the border region with Ottoman empire, tasked to defend it from Islam, were unimaginably brutally slaughtered during the World War 2 but the Croatian Ustase.
    In these concentration camps out of which the most prominent one was Jasenovac, captured Serbs were killed and dropped into the pits. Unlike the Germans whom exterminated Jews with cyclon B, the Croatian Ustase, according to their pure hate towards Serbs, preferred the manual work, ritually disemboweled the Serbs with knifes,saws,axes and massive maces, the same technique they were using during the WW1 in Serbia. The reason of such usage of blades lies in the ritual nature of the massacre, to cut-all ties with Serbs, to cut them off so that Croatia can be free and independent as well as to dehumanize the Serbs as nation,religion and culture.

    This was a mind blowing experience for Milosevic propaganda,so a new mantra was formulated: Since the Germany was on Croatian side and the Croats were catholic, Slobodan Milosevis added another enemy of the Serbs. The Vatican. So when the hostilities in Croatia started, Serbs were fighting the EU which is was Nazi regime undercover and the Vatican. . Eu is the free masons whom rule the world and Germans were genetically Nazis the haters of Slavs and the Vatican is a roman empire whom wants to rule the world and they all descended to destroy the Serbs whom were heroes.

    However the only thing that was epic in all that was psychological warfare and propaganda by both sides.

    Croats started to call all Serbs Chetniks and Serbs started to call all Croats Ustase. The picture was black and white. The status of JNA was seriously in question and faith in it was shaken. The Croatian Serbs rebelled and started to make roadblocks. Croatian police reacted. But than the Federal Army stepped in. After declaring its independence, the Federal army became an occupying force and the Croatian forces started to carry attacks on JNA. The official story that was presented in the Media about the war in Croatia was something like this. Croats want to exterminate Serbs from Croatia once again, they have the help of the free masons, catholic church and the Nazis. Serbs as heroes learned their lesson and they will not go down like they did in the World War 2, like lambs to the slaughter, so Serbia has every right to support their just cause to live free and independent from monstrous Ustase state that has risen from hell, summoned by the Vatican and approved by the “free and democratic” world that is under the claws of free masons. This was than spiced up with uncensored ogrish reports from Croatia where every night was a forensic paradise. Mutilated bodies for 30 minutes every day at 20:00. People were glued to the TV that broadcast psychosis 24/7. At that time many paramilitary forces were formed and their primary role was to control the Croatian Serbs and to manage the war effort. With sacking and robbery as compensation. Serbs in Croatia proclaimed the territory under their control to be first the Autonomous Region of Serbian Kraina which was than renamed into the Republic of Serbian Kraina. Ethnic cleansing and atrocities were committed against Croatian population. During the war in Croatia, over 247,000 Croats were displaced, many cities and villages were destroyed as well as churches and historical sites, especially the ancient city of Dubrovnik. When the arms embargo was imposed, smuggling of arms and supplies lead to massive capital gains for wealthy groups, turning the entire carnage into very profitable business. The arms embargo pushed the Federal Army out of the picture, since it required spare parts and technical maintenance. Serbs in Croatia remained on their land until 1995, when rearmed and retrained by the US contractors, Croatian army regained control over it, in the operation ”Storm”. Arround 150.000 Serbs fled to Serbia, almost the entire Serbian population in Croatia. After the operation Storm has ended, Croatia was 100% in control over its territory and practically ethnically clean state.

    War in Bosnia.

    The hell. This was equally bloody breakup but unlike Croatian Serbs, Bosnian Serbs took preemptive actions and attacked first. The JNA in Bosnia,started to retreat but was under constant attack form Bosnian Muslims whom were attempting to gain control over the weapons. As far as I can remember the JNA was a lot more active in Bosnia in protecting its assets and personnel. This had a side effect of Bosnian Muslims being ill equipped and suffered unspeakable losses and suffering. The Bosnian Serb domination was quickly assured, but due to wast territory it wasn't able to control efficiently the entire front line. This resulted with Serbs owning the day and Muslims owned the night. War started in 1992 and it lasted till 1994, when the treaty at Dayton base was signed. During the war, horrendous atrocities and ethnic cleansing and acts of genocide were committed by all three parties. At the end of the war, NATO intervened by bombing the Bosnian Serb positions allowing the rearmed and retrained Bosnian Muslim and Croat Armies to defeat Bosnian Serbs and expand their territories. After that NATO secured the Bosnia with the introduction SFOR. Bosina remains today divided into two parts, the Bosnian federation which consists out of Croats and Muslims and the Serbian part know as Srpska.

    During the war in Bosnia, economic sanctions were imposed on Serbia and Montenegro adding another layer to the Serbian paranoia. Not only that they have to fight free masons, Nazis, Vatican, Ustasa but now they have to fight Islam and more over, the only superpower, the United States of America. Since we are just and superheroes we must fight these joint evils since the destiny of the universe depends on us. After the war in Bosnia ended, Serbs the majority of Serbs lost the fate in democracy and the West and Islam were enemies for life. Milosevic was 100% in control of the population.

    After that, there was a brief period of peace but the situation in Kosovo was getting hotter. There was some twitching in the pro democratic movement in Serbia but it was under Milosevic control as well. Milosevic allowed certain freedoms but those freedoms were more like a thermometer and a pressure valve for the Serbs. He allowed the pressure to ease in 1996, during the democratic protests but tighten the grip as the situation in Kosovo started to get hotter.

    Kosovo War.

    All three wars were fought on the territory outside Serbia. But Kosovo was the Serbian territory, for the Serbs at least. Albanians in Kosovo formed parallel institutions and ignored the Serbian state. In 1996, the first murder that was claimed by the Kosovo Liberation Army was performed. After that act the number of murders will increase, and the violence will be aimed mostly toward Albanian population that might have any connection with the Serbian state. When the ties were broken, attacks were redirected toward Serbian State. Police officers were their main victims at the time. Milosevic tried to treat Kosovo as the internal problem so he didn't use Military force. He used Police. But at the time Serbian police was better equipped than the army and was acting as an army in Kosovo. Conflict escalated in 1998 and 1999 and the police wasn't sufficient to sustain the Albanian insurgency so the army stepped in as well. Number of civilian casualties was high and the same pattern repeated from previous wars.When NATO intervened in the operation “Noble Anvil” or “Allied Force”, Serbian forces both military and police, tried to control the Albanian population by "collecting" them into the refugee camps. The plan was, that the ones whom trust the Serbian govt will stay and the ones whom don't will leave to Albania on their own.But due to the nature of that conflict, which was total hate more than 800.000 Albanians fled the Kosovo. The war ended after 78 days with Serbian troops, both military and police, withdrew from Kosovo after the treaty was signed at Kumanovo, Macedonia between Serbian security forces and NATO. With the army and police, almost entire population of Kosovo Serbs fled with them. Ones whom stayed were either killed by the Albanians or left to live in ghettos aka enclaves. Only in the northern part of the Kosovo, Serbian majority was able to stay. Kosovo declared the independence in 2008. Serbia was defeated in all fronts, on all grounds and the rage turned towards Milosevic. He lost the elections for the first time in 2000 and transferred to Hague in 2002 where he died in 2006.

    In the last effort to revive democracy in Serbia, the Serbian prime minister Zoran Djindjic introduced the rapid programs and reforms, but it was to late. Serbian democracy died when on March 12th at 12:23, when bullet fired from the Heckler and Koch G3 assault rifle with the long range sniper scope penetrated the Zoran's heart. This event ended the war and Serbian history.
    Last edited by Versus; 29 Aug 11, at 11:57.

  15. #45
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    I must add that the only state of the former Yugoslavia that didn't followed the war path, was Macedonia and later on Montenegro. Sorry Doktor, I was focusing on the conflict and what it produced.

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