Which choice is better for becoming a good sniper- USMC or Army

[Shek]

No, not a vegetarian. I do eat meat and love using my George Foreman Grill for Chicken breasts (AWESOME AND EASY TO DO!)



Giving it to the low income families or charities would actually make hunting animals "valid" in my mind, but I don't buy that saving them from overpopulation excuse. You can't tell me that a lot of hunters hunt animals so they can save them from overpopulation because that is like a random fisher saying they fish to save the fish from overpopulation, I don't buy it.



Since you are not a qualified military or civilian psychiatrist nor a psychologist (I am assuming this), your opinion really doesn't matter. I think you underestimate me and my determination to do what I want to do. Based on a few statements, you conclude that I would not be able to handle a real life situation in which I would have to conclude to shoot someone, I think without actually knowing me and talking to me face to face, you cannot conclude anything.

Illusha,
I find your position on hunting very muddled since you're not a vegetarian. You're willing for others to kill your meat for you, but you won't do it unless you were facing starvation. If you were a vegetarian or a vegan, then I would find your stand principled; however, that's not the case and I wonder how you square that up.

I do not personally hunt, but if asked, I wouldn't have a problem going and shooting varmits or game. Several of my soldiers hunted and would often offer up venison jerky and elk jerky, so the game that my guys hunted went to a good use.

Finally, overpopulation is a strong reason for hunting - it may not be the motivation for hunters to hunt, but it certaintly guides their ability to hunt (or go to jail if they poach). Since I don't hunt or fish on my own, I don't know all the ins and outs, but growing up in Illinois, I'd always read the whole sports section of my city's newspaper, and you would always read about the hunting season opening for particular game and the limits per day per hunter for the season that would allow the herds to sustain themselves. These policies were directly linked to game populations to prevent overcrowding and an imbalance in the ecosystem. Why not let nature run its course? Because changes to the environment created by man has given some animals an advantage and others a disadvantage, so hunting policies take this into account to maintain a balanced ecosystem. I'm sure that others could go in to much more detail - I'm sure there's plenty of stories of where they couldn't hunt their favorite game during some seasons since the herd population couldn't support it. My guesses on why hunters hunt - 1) stock their deep freezes stuck in the corner of the garage or basement 2) a hobby to pass their free time 3) competition with the animal they are hunting 4) a shared activity with friends or family. I would recommend reading "On Killing" - it actually traces the sociology of killing and the respect given by people that need to hunt and/or kill animals for their living. While hunting today by most people isn't to put food on the table everyday, I'm sure that you'll find most hunters very respectful of the game they pursue (outside of those that shoot varmits and many tourists that pay big bucks to be guided to a big game kill). Just a few thoughts - my guess is that actually talking to hunters would change your perspective or prove me wrong.

[Bill]

"Since you are not a qualified military or civilian psychiatrist nor a psychologist (I am assuming this), your opinion really doesn't matter. I think you underestimate me and my determination to do what I want to do. Based on a few statements, you conclude that I would not be able to handle a real life situation in which I would have to conclude to shoot someone, I think without actually knowing me and talking to me face to face, you cannot conclude anything."

Well then, you've nothing to worry about, do you?

LOL.

[Shek]

"Since you are not a qualified military or civilian psychiatrist nor a psychologist (I am assuming this), your opinion really doesn't matter. I think you underestimate me and my determination to do what I want to do. Based on a few statements, you conclude that I would not be able to handle a real life situation in which I would have to conclude to shoot someone, I think without actually knowing me and talking to me face to face, you cannot conclude anything."

Well then, you've nothing to worry about then, do you?

LOL.

Illusha,
FSV hit the nail on the head. Leaders in the military make judgements on people everyday and successful leaders do this better than others. I wasn't as perceptive as a LT, but I certaintly became good at it when I was a company commander. When making decisions, you have to fall back on your experience and judgement - what is the best platoon to do this mission? who has the right personality to handle this mission? who can I trust to get this job done?

I made decisions like this everyday in Iraq and even before. For example, a few months before Iraq, I moved a new platoon leader from one platoon (a solid platoon with a solid PSG that I would have ranked as #2 in my company) to another (a platoon with some talented NCOs and soldiers with a knowledgeable PSG that wasn't as assertive in some situations that had a soup sandwich PL and was by far the worst performing platoon in my company) when he first came to the company based on his qualities. Within three months, this was my best platoon and the change in the morale of the platoon was tremendous. Any of my other PLs could not have had the same results - they fit was just right for this particular PL. I don't use this to try and prove that I am any better at this than others (I'm sure I'm not), just to illustrate that reading people is a critical element of leadership.

What does this have to do with you - leaders read people and make snap judgements. In your case, the fact that you're not willing to kill an animal that you eat unless it was a life or death situation raises a red flag as to whether you'd pull the trigger on a target when it is not a life or death situation for you (unless you are a terrible sniper that likes to compromise yourself). I'd say that the analysis on you being a sniper has been dead on using the information you have provided. Now, would I (or more appropriately, my 1SG) have asked whether you hunt? No, but I know your NCOs that would make a recommendation on your trying out for a sniper slot would know this and make their own judgement, which would most likely be that you don't have the qualities that we would be looking for in a sniper.

Now, this isn't a definitive analysis. This is based on an internet interaction that leaves out body language and all the other non-verbal qualities that can communicate in a face to face conversation. As you go through your training, mature, and are exposed to the Army or Marines, your opinions and thoughts will change in one direction or another, and so any conversation a few years down the road could play out differently. However, I would think through this some more - I can't seem to reconcile your stance on hunting with the fact that you are a happy carnivore.

[Bill]

Troung: "I remember talking to you about joining the NG back in 2002 before my accident and you never said that to me. Jeez this guy must be really unfit then..."

You'd probably make a good soldier. You certainly have the interest and intelligence, and if my years of 'knowing you' on the net are any indicator, reaching the neccesary level of motivation would not be hard for you.

Your problem is that you can't shoot for shiit. ;)
(to the rest of the board: Inside joke, lol).

With your knowledge of the 3d world, and your background, you'd probably be a damned good intel puke. :)

[Bill]

You know what your biggest problem is Illusha?

You don't know when to simply nod your head and STFU.

You volunteered all kinds of info that no one asked for. It was that info that made it seem apparent you weren't suited for the role to begin with...or indeed even suited to be a soldier. Instead of just listening, and keeping your personal opinion to yourself, and judging the advice you recieved without comment or at least a request for clarification, you ran your mouth.

So if i were to give you any advice at all, it would be to learn to shut your f'ing mouth unless you can control what comes out of it, because in just one conversation you've managed to convince a Lt. Colonel, a captain, a Gunnery Sgt, a Corporal, and another NCO(whose rank i dont know) that you're a fucck up....and all based on comments that YOU volunteered without solicitation.

You give the impression of a know it all that thinks he's smarter than the people in charge and who don't know when to keep his mouth shut.

You don't know dick about soldiering. You don't know dick about what it takes, or why. Short of doing it yourself, the only way to find out is to ask. It's extremely unwise to get indignant when someone who DOES know first hand what's required offers you advice. It makes you look like an immature dumbasss. I have more time on the latrine than you've got in the service. When i tell you what is the best course of action to get into a B4 slot, it's because it IS the best course of action based on my actual first hand experience.

Gunnery Sergeant FSV is right, you'd be on my shiit list too. And i'll tell you this right now, if you ever find yourself in the military, and a Lt. Colonel has taken the time out of his busy day to address you for any reason, SHUT YOUR GOD DAMNED MOUTH and smile. When he's done, execute a sharp salute and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

If you ever told a Lt. Colonel "don't call me son" you'd get a field grade Art15 so fast your head would spin, and you would be on every single shiit list of every single officer and NCO in your entire unit.
They'd hound you into an F up so that they could slap a chapter 13 patterns of misconduct discharge on you and then laugh about it at the NCO and Officers clubs until your name faded into obscurity.

Bn XO: "What was that F up privates name again? The one that told the ole' man not to call him son?"

Co CO: "I don't remember, but i seem to recall he painted the entire barracks three times over with his toothbrush."

If one of my troops told the boss not to call him son i'd PT him until his dick fell off, then i'd PT him some more just because i could.

You're your own worst enemy son.

[troung]

You'd probably make a good soldier. You certainly have the interest and intelligence, and if my years of 'knowing you' on the net are any indicator, reaching the neccesary level of motivation would not be hard for you. With your knowledge of the 3d world, and your background, you'd probably be a damned good intel puke.

Thanks I mean it :)

Your problem is that you can't shoot for shiit. (to the rest of the board: Inside joke, lol).

Yeah...

A "small thing" I would need to work on...

I sometimes think if things had been different and I had been able to join what I would be doing. Of course seeing as up to a few months ago I still used handicap ramps....

If the same **** had happened to me a few months later I would be a goddamn hero... ;)

[Bill]

Just being honest with my VC buddy. ;)

[troung]

Thanks... :)

[giggs88]

enlisting in the USMC doesn't even guarantee you an Infantry MOS to begin with(which is required for snipers).

I thought you get to pick a field like Infantry and then the USMC places you in a speciality like - Rifleman, Assaultman, LAV Crewman etc.

[Bill]

"I thought you get to pick a field like Infantry and then the USMC places you in a speciality like - Rifleman, Assaultman, LAV Crewman etc."

I was just going by what i've heard. I was Army. FSV or GG would probably know.

[illusha]

You volunteered all kinds of info that no one asked for. It was that info that made it seem apparent you weren't suited for the role to begin with...or indeed even suited to be a soldier. Instead of just listening, and keeping your personal opinion to yourself, and judging the advice you recieved without comment or at least a request for clarification, you ran your mouth.

When I submitted this topic, I thought I would get useful information about Army and USMC sniping, which you gave me. Then when I asked about uranium contamination and vacinations, you went on a rampage on how dangerous a warzone is. I guess I asked too many questions because otherwise we would have been fine.

So if i were to give you any advice at all, it would be to learn to shut your f'ing mouth unless you can control what comes out of it, because in just one conversation you've managed to convince a Lt. Colonel, a captain, a Gunnery Sgt, a Corporal, and another NCO(whose rank i dont know) that you're a fucck up....and all based on comments that YOU volunteered without solicitation.

Really? I convinced all those people that I am a **** up?? I guess you didn't read shrek's opinion's and he basically said

As you go through your training, mature, and are exposed to the Army or Marines, your opinions and thoughts will change in one direction or another, and so any conversation a few years down the road could play out differently.

He thinks I could make it and I really don't care about your opinion

You give the impression of a know it all that thinks he's smarter than the people in charge and who don't know when to keep his mouth shut.

I just give my opinion and I think that is pretty important to do in the military when YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE. I acted badly towards you because you acted like an ******* and I will treat you the same way you treat me

You don't know dick about soldiering. You don't know dick about what it takes, or why. Short of doing it yourself, the only way to find out is to ask. It's extremely unwise to get indignant when someone who DOES know first hand what's required offers you advice. It makes you look like an immature dumbasss. I have more time on the latrine than you've got in the service. When i tell you what is the best course of action to get into a B4 slot, it's because it IS the best course of action based on my actual first hand experience.

I never said I knew anything about "soldiering" because I have never been a soldier.

Short of doing it yourself, the only way to find out is to ask.

Hmm, that's ironic... because that is what I have been doing and you told me not to do it.

Also, I told you this before but you keep annoying me about it, I don't like being called son or champ or whatever, BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT WHICH YOU NEED TO READ, I WOULD NOT BE ANGRY OR OFFENDED IF A HIGHER RANKING PERSON THAN ME WOULD CALL ME SON.

M21Sniper, I've seen you ***** for like 4 posts in a row now. Either we get back on subject or we should stop talking. oh and I just want to say something, I graduated from high school on monday :) Bastards gave me a fake diploma in the ceremony, I get it in august

[Bill]

You're right. I'm coming down on you just because i'm an assshole and want to see your dreams denied. I'm really jealous of you...that's what it is.

So are FSV and OOE. And yep, Shek seems very impressed with you.

There, feel better now?

[TopHatter]

illusha chill out.
Like Asim, you're acting like a whining kid that's moaning that he's not respected.

oh and I just want to say something, I graduated from high school on monday

Congratualtions, that is definitely something to be proud of, in all sincerity
Except now you get to enter the real world and start proving yourself.

[troung]

When I submitted this topic, I thought I would get useful information about Army and USMC sniping, which you gave me. Then when I asked about uranium contamination and vacinations, you went on a rampage on how dangerous a warzone is. I guess I asked too many questions because otherwise we would have been fine.

In Iraq I'm sure the least of ones worries is DU...

Are you looking to become a sniper because it is "cool"?

[Stone Cold]

When I submitted this topic, I thought I would get useful information about Army and USMC sniping, which you gave me. Then when I asked about uranium contamination and vacinations, you went on a rampage on how dangerous a warzone is. I guess I asked too many questions because otherwise we would have been fine.



Really? I convinced all those people that I am a **** up?? I guess you didn't read shrek's opinion's and he basically said



He thinks I could make it and I really don't care about your opinion



I just give my opinion and I think that is pretty important to do in the military when YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE. I acted badly towards you because you acted like an ******* and I will treat you the same way you treat me



I never said I knew anything about "soldiering" because I have never been a soldier.



Hmm, that's ironic... because that is what I have been doing and you told me not to do it.

Also, I told you this before but you keep annoying me about it, I don't like being called son or champ or whatever, BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT WHICH YOU NEED TO READ, I WOULD NOT BE ANGRY OR OFFENDED IF A HIGHER RANKING PERSON THAN ME WOULD CALL ME SON.

M21Sniper, I've seen you ***** for like 4 posts in a row now. Either we get back on subject or we should stop talking. oh and I just want to say something, I graduated from high school on monday :) Bastards gave me a fake diploma in the ceremony, I get it in august

Come join us. I welcome you.