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Thread: Stealth Satellites

  1. #1
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    Stealth Satellites



    http://www.fas.org/spp/military/prog...ck/stealth.pdf
    http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/track/okno.pdf
    I have long been interested in our space warfare capabilities. If you read the source book it is clear that the USA has put stealth satellites into orbit. Although, it looks like radar stealth does not translate necessarily into optical stealth. This plays into another interest that I have namely the OKNO Optical Tracking Station. OKNO went online in the early 1980's which is coincidentally the same time that Ronald Reagan ramped up SDI. Every Major Power has an OKNO like facility. I would conclude that there is something akin to a secret war going on in our skies.

    What would stop a nation from pre-positioning Enhanced Radiation Devices in Space above their enemies? I know that Enhanced Effects Warheads were being developed in America since at least the late 50's. If it is possible to build a nuclear weapon that has the enhanced effect of gamma rays and bursts in the same way that a gamma ray burster does perpendicular to its spin. The country that deployed them first would have an incredible advantage.

    It is also notable that in the OKNO document that the Russians did fire a directed energy weapon at the Space Shuttle in the 1980's. The astronauts on that mission got radiation sickness. This nearly derailed one of the summit meeting between Gorbachev and Reagan.
    Last edited by David Crocket; 18 Jul 11, at 10:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    What would stop a nation from pre-positioning Enhanced Radiation Devices in Space above their enemies?
    Outer Space Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Winter is coming.

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    Russians did fire a directed energy weapon at the Space Shuttle
    Is there the slightest evidence for this? Do you have sources?

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    There is nothing stopping proliferation of weapons in space. All that has changed as a result of treaties like the OST are the words used to describe the tech. In fact, recently China and Russia made a "treaty" that reads more like a cooperation agreement in my opinion. China has even demonstrated docking manuvers that can amplify directed energy (read: lasers), or howabout their parasitic satellite program? Just because the terms are different, it by no means obscures the function. Russia took this kind of tech way more serious for decades before the US, and SOMETHING had to happen for Reagen to just decide it's a good idea to create the SDI (how you can have a hardline conservative go out on a limb and start talking about laser beams and outer space is still beyond me).

    Some of the biggest programs in the Pentagon budget have to do with the Space-based weapons and defense. This is definitely one of those above the tearline issues, that unless you are directly involved with the programs, you have to just wait and see what trickles out. For me, there has been more than enough to quantify that there is a struggle for dominance in space. At this point in tech development, nuclear weapons are becoming obsolete. If anyone here thinks that humans just stopped creating bigger, badder weapons, you are terribly mistaken and sheltered. The focus has been to find ways of destroying the enemy without the attack even being seen as an attack, and to prevent it ever being traced back to the user.

    Here is a good article by James Oberg, while it's not very in depth, it does offer a glimpse into what the defense community was worried about 10 years ago.

    This is from the book on Soviet Military Power , which is full of earlier musings on the coming weaponization.

    Another good article on developments and happenings (and even direct US/Russian exchanges) in/with space weapons.

    Whether or not the Russians actually hit the shuttle in question is nearly a moot. The reality is that this has been a theatre of war for decades now, and given the enormous sums of money invested into space-based weapons and tech, I would say it is a highly active theatre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Is there the slightest evidence for this? Do you have sources?
    On 11 October 1984, the US defence secretary reported to the president that equipment on the Challenger shuttle broke down and crew felt unwell when it passed over Lake Balkhash, near Norak, suggesting that the Soviets were testing a new anti-satellite weapon. Indeed, the Terra-3 experimental laser radar was used on Defence Minister Dmitriy Ustinov's orders. After a US protest, the Soviets promised not to use it against manned spacecraft. The Americans, however, were worried, thinking that Okno was a beam anti- satellite weapon system. This nearly wrecked the Soviet-US summit in 1985, which only went ahead after Soviet specialists proved that Okno had no radiating elements.

    http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/track/okno.pdf
    Last edited by David Crocket; 18 Jul 11, at 20:32.

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    http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/...s/00384860.pdf

    One other notable thing about U.S. Space Warfare capabilities is the amount of research that has gone into thermal nuclear rockets. There have been Project Dumbo, Project ROVER, NERVA, TIMBERWIND, and Prometheus. Billions have been spent but supposedly nothing has come from this research. I conjecture that these programs have been successful. The public is fed the line that these have been boondoggles. I think that the programs successes were Black Operations. Charles Arthur published an article in the "Independent" newspaper of the U.K. concerning a U.S. nuclear space plane in December of 2000.

    Here is a link to the article. I have to hold my nose when it comes to RENSE's site with all of the UFO noise that he publishes. But, the article is accessible here. It can also be found on Lexis-Nexis but I doubt that everyone here has access to Lexis-Nexis. Hence Rense.
    US Nuclear Spaceplane Downed, South Of Brisbane Australia!

    I found another link for this article.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0012/S00057.htm

    http://www.physicsroom.org.nz/log/ar...5/spaceplanes/
    Last edited by David Crocket; 18 Jul 11, at 22:29.

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    If you wanna look into space-based military systems, look into the (very) secret operations of the Boeing X-37:

    Factsheets : X-37B Orbital Test Vehicle

    Both missions (both OTV-1 and OTV-2) were "classified".
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    To quote Yogi Berra this is like "deja vu all over again". I have seen this before I know that I am not the only one.








    +

    =






    Last edited by David Crocket; 19 Jul 11, at 05:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Is there the slightest evidence for this? Do you have sources?
    I recall that around that same timeframe a Russian airliner reported a "bright light from space" that illuminated the aircraft, and tracked them to their destination. It was right after one of the DOD shuttle flights.

    The speculation was it was a low-power test.

    I think both sides were playing around with beaming each other a little in those days. Their side from the ground, and our side from above.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    So the pilot saw the laser beam from space? Forgive my skepticism.

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    ^^ Just an anectode Jimmy. From the IEEE Times, IIRC.

    It was a long time ago.

    I get what you mean about IR spectra, but that was 30 years ago- and this is something of a speculative thread after all.
    Last edited by highsea; 19 Jul 11, at 03:08.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    We are mostly on the same page the only point of contention I have is underlined. I think that we were light years ahead of the Russians. It might even be the case that the USA was so far ahead that the Russians decided to give up. The Laser Technology you have to remember was one of the babies of the Manhattan Project. It is an off shoot of the Nuclear Light Bulb.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dv2 View Post
    There is nothing stopping proliferation of weapons in space. All that has changed as a result of treaties like the OST are the words used to describe the tech. In fact, recently China and Russia made a "treaty" that reads more like a cooperation agreement in my opinion. China has even demonstrated docking manuvers that can amplify directed energy (read: lasers), or howabout their parasitic satellite program? Just because the terms are different, it by no means obscures the function. Russia took this kind of tech way more serious for decades before the US, and SOMETHING had to happen for Reagen to just decide it's a good idea to create the SDI (how you can have a hardline conservative go out on a limb and start talking about laser beams and outer space is still beyond me).

    Some of the biggest programs in the Pentagon budget have to do with the Space-based weapons and defense. This is definitely one of those above the tearline issues, that unless you are directly involved with the programs, you have to just wait and see what trickles out. For me, there has been more than enough to quantify that there is a struggle for dominance in space. At this point in tech development, nuclear weapons are becoming obsolete. If anyone here thinks that humans just stopped creating bigger, badder weapons, you are terribly mistaken and sheltered. The focus has been to find ways of destroying the enemy without the attack even being seen as an attack, and to prevent it ever being traced back to the user.

    Here is a good article by James Oberg, while it's not very in depth, it does offer a glimpse into what the defense community was worried about 10 years ago.

    This is from the book on Soviet Military Power , which is full of earlier musings on the coming weaponization.

    Another good article on developments and happenings (and even direct US/Russian exchanges) in/with space weapons.

    Whether or not the Russians actually hit the shuttle in question is nearly a moot. The reality is that this has been a theatre of war for decades now, and given the enormous sums of money invested into space-based weapons and tech, I would say it is a highly active theatre.

  13. #13
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    See Jimmy? We got nuclear lightbulbs.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    We will have to agree to disagree on that one, but I definitely appreciate the thread!

    I think that the tech of the 60's through the 80's definitely limited both sides capability. But now days...there are no limits.

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    Here is a declassified document on the Nuclear Light Bulb. This technology is obviously a perfect explanation for many UFO sightings where people claim to have seen a "bright light in the sky".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dv2 View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree on that one, but I definitely appreciate the thread!

    I think that the tech of the 60's through the 80's definitely limited both sides capability. But now days...there are no limits.
    Nuclear Rockets were even test fired over Los Angeles.
    http://tech.mit.edu/V114/N30/nuke.30w.html

    Nuclear Rocket Dumped Radiation on Los Angeles Residents in 1965 Test

    By Melissa Healy
    Los Angeles Times
    WASHINGTON
    A federal agency's test of a nuclear-powered rocket in 1965 produced a radioactive cloud that drifted over Los Angeles before dissipating over the Pacific Ocean, according to a lawmaker who charged Wednesday that the area's 6 million residents were used as human guinea pigs in the experiment.

    Citing documents released by the Energy Department in recent weeks, Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) said the radioactive cloud of nuclear material was the result of an "intentional accident" designed to monitor the effects of a malfunction aboard the rocket.

    While radioactivity levels were extremely low and unlikely to have caused illnesses, Markey said "an intentional reactor accident releasing a radioactive cloud should not be considered prudent public policy."

    The incident is the latest disclosed as a result of an Energy Department effort to expose government testing programs in which humans may have been exposed to radiation without their knowledge or informed consent. A panel of scientists and ethicists commissioned by Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary is investigating a range of radiation experiments involving humans between 1945 and the late 1970s. The panel also is expected to recommend compensation and medical follow-up for victims.

    In a letter sent to O'Leary Wednesday, Markey urged the secretary to refer the rocket test to the investigating panel for consideration as a human experiment. If the panel accepts the experiment as an episode of human experimentation, Los Angeles residents who can demonstrate they were affected by the test could be eligible for some compensation. More likely, however, area residents would be subject to efforts to trace the long-term health effects of the test.

    "The history of the Atomic Energy Commission's nuclear-powered rocket program is already one of unrestrained radioactive hubris," Markey wrote in a letter to O'Leary.

    The test was conducted by the Atomic Energy Commission, a predecessor of the Energy Department, with the assistance of the U.S. Public Health Service and a private contractor.

    At 10:58 a.m. PST on Jan. 12, 1965, scientists conducted what they called a "controlled excursion."

    The rocket took off from Jackass Flats at the Nevada Test Site and burned off part of its radioactive core in a spectacle that scientists said "resembled a Roman candle." Prevailing winds pushed the resulting cloud of radioactive debris Southwest from the test site, over Death Valley, and then onward over "the Los Angeles area," according to the documents. Aircraft stopped tracking the cloud when it drifted over the Pacific Ocean.

    Public Health officials taking routine air samples from Barstow, San Bernardino, Los Angeles and San Diego observed "increased radioactivity" on the two days following the test, according to a 1968 report prepared by the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

    In fact, levels of radiation released in the experiment were lower than scientists had predicted they would be, the Los Alamos report observed. At 15 miles from the test site, the maximum level of whole-body radiation exposure was measured at 5.7 millirad. That is well below current standards set by the Environmental Protection Agency for the exposure of the general public from commercial atomic power operations. Those standards dictate that over one year, a member of the general public should not be exposed to more than 25 millirad whole-body radiation.

    Experts said that if individuals were exposed to 5.7 millirad at 15 miles from the test site, those in Los Angeles, some 200 miles away, would have had significantly lighter exposures. It is thus doubtful, said one aide to Markey, that the test caused measurable health effects among residents of the Los Angeles area.

    But Markey and O'Leary have argued that even if exposure levels do not themselves prompt concern, the emerging picture of early radiation testing raises serious questions about the ethical standards observed by the federal government enforced in its experimental programs.
    Last edited by David Crocket; 19 Jul 11, at 06:22.

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