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Thread: Stealth Satellites

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea View Post
    ^^ Just an anectode Jimmy. From the IEEE Times, IIRC.

    It was a long time ago.

    I get what you mean about IR spectra, but that was 30 years ago- and this is something of a speculative thread after all.
    This is a conspiracy theory thread, little more. Fun as hell, though. I used to listen to Art Bell when I worked nights in high school and college.

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    I see that you are using "conspiracy" in the pejorative and dismissive sense of the term. I have put links to FOIA documents from LOS ALAMOS. Which ones are you skeptical of?

    Do you think that the hypothesis that America has a black space program employing advanced nuclear propulsion and weapons systems is less credible explanation for "UFOS" than the alternative of anal raping little green men?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    This is a conspiracy theory thread, little more. Fun as hell, though. I used to listen to Art Bell when I worked nights in high school and college.

  3. #18
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    Nuclear propulsion and especially nuclear batteries have been in use since the 1950's. IIRC, anything outside the orbit of Mars requires nuclear power, due to the low solar flux that makes solar panels unworkable. Voyager, somewhere outside Pluto's orbit, has a nuclear battery. And they have experimented with low-thrust but high-impulse nuclear thrusters as well.

    Media has a tendency to take any object that has a nuclear component in it and declare it an "Atomic" object, like Atomic spaceplane, nuclear rocket, etc, making it seem more exotic than it is.

    I'm a bit doubtful about some of these claims. Stealth satellites? Sure. DEW? Maybe. But secret nuclear manned space planes? I'm very doubtful. There are many black systems out there, but as they become large, they are more often than not made public, as maintaining the extreme secrecy is expensive and onerous.

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    You are assuming that extreme secrecy is "expensive and onerous". Let's first remember America is the richest and most powerful nation on Earth. The workers on these programs sign secrecy agreements. Sometimes even after the programs are made public they still are not allowed to talk. When it comes to secrecy the threat of life in Leavenworth is enough to keep most peoples mouth shut. Second if you read the ASPEN document it is clear that you can hide a nuclear space plane in plain sight. If you compartmentalize the program the secrecy will not be that expensive. Compartmentalized ground crews can keep much of the functions secret. They would not need to know where the plane had been. They would not need to know the thing is a space plane. Third an ASPEN type vehicle if you read the CONGRESSIONAL ANP REPORT was supposed to be run out of the desert (Nevada) or an island base. The prime candidates are the Nevada Desert, Diego Garcia or the Australian Outback. The geographic isolation of the program would make the secrecy less onerous. PSYOPS can also help to maintain secrecy. If you put a lot of bullshit out there people will not know what to believe. This is what I believe the UFO phenomenon is a PSYOP against the American People to keep them from knowing what to believe. But, if you look at the phenomenon such as the reported cases of radiation poisoning. A nuclear space program is much more in line with what has been researched over the last 60 years than "aliens". The Betty Cash story for instance is much better explained by the Nuclear Space Program than "Aliens".

    Cash-Landrum incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://www.fas.org/nuke/space/anp-gao1963.pdf

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/...s/00384860.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Nuclear propulsion and especially nuclear batteries have been in use since the 1950's. IIRC, anything outside the orbit of Mars requires nuclear power, due to the low solar flux that makes solar panels unworkable. Voyager, somewhere outside Pluto's orbit, has a nuclear battery. And they have experimented with low-thrust but high-impulse nuclear thrusters as well.

    Media has a tendency to take any object that has a nuclear component in it and declare it an "Atomic" object, like Atomic spaceplane, nuclear rocket, etc, making it seem more exotic than it is.

    I'm a bit doubtful about some of these claims. Stealth satellites? Sure. DEW? Maybe. But secret nuclear manned space planes? I'm very doubtful. There are many black systems out there, but as they become large, they are more often than not made public, as maintaining the extreme secrecy is expensive and onerous.
    Last edited by David Crocket; 19 Jul 11, at 20:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    I'm a bit doubtful about some of these claims. Stealth satellites? Sure. DEW? Maybe. But secret nuclear manned space planes? I'm very doubtful. There are many black systems out there, but as they become large, they are more often than not made public, as maintaining the extreme secrecy is expensive and onerous.
    DEW has a decades long history, how can you be skeptical of something no one is trying to hide? As far as "secret nuclear manned space planes," I would agree, but only to the point that it would far more viable to make said planes UNmanned for reasons of cost, efficacy, and safety. Lastly, many of these programs ARE made public, only the intellectual property has to remain secret.

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    Why do you think that there would not be a Manned Program? For the last 30+ years for instance we have had the ability to make an unmanned jet that can out perform anything a manned jet can do. Yet, men are still in the cockpit. Also, there are precautions that can be taken to lessen the nuclear associated risks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dv2 View Post
    DEW has a decades long history, how can you be skeptical of something no one is trying to hide? As far as "secret nuclear manned space planes," I would agree, but only to the point that it would far more viable to make said planes UNmanned for reasons of cost, efficacy, and safety. Lastly, many of these programs ARE made public, only the intellectual property has to remain secret.

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    Regardless of the nuclear risks, you make available TONS of space when you dont have a human passenger to worry about.

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    True, no doubt you do free up payload space. I think that there are both manned and unmanned programs. The craft that Betty Cash saw was an unmanned craft. There will still be manned craft to service the weapons stations in orbit though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dv2 View Post
    Regardless of the nuclear risks, you make available TONS of space when you dont have a human passenger to worry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    Why do you think that there would not be a Manned Program? For the last 30+ years for instance we have had the ability to make an unmanned jet that can out perform anything a manned jet can do. Yet, men are still in the cockpit. Also, there are precautions that can be taken to lessen the nuclear associated risks.
    Men are in the cockpit to make life or death decisions on the spot, not because they're better at basic tasks than automated systems. In a modern aircraft all the pilot does is tell the computer what the end result needs to be and the computer makes it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    You are assuming that extreme secrecy is "expensive and onerous". Let's first remember America is the richest and most powerful nation on Earth. The workers on these programs sign secrecy agreements. Sometimes even after the programs are made public they still are not allowed to talk. When it comes to secrecy the threat of life in Leavenworth is enough to keep most peoples mouth shut. Second if you read the ASPEN document it is clear that you can hide a nuclear space plane in plain sight. If you compartmentalize the program the secrecy will not be that expensive.
    The simple fact here is that people are people, and this section is sadly inaccurate. Ever heard of wikileaks? Sure, MOST people are willing to keep their word and not talk about things they're not supposed to talk about...but it only takes ONE person to ruin all that. Secrecy is not cheap OR easy. It's a tremendous pain in the ass, frankly.

    Edit: Get back to the actual topics though, that's the fun stuff.
    Last edited by Jimmy; 20 Jul 11, at 02:03.

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    Do you have a reference for this? I am a bit skeptical as well. How long was this alleged tracking supposed to have lasted time wise? Was it hours, or minutes?

    Quote Originally Posted by highsea View Post
    I recall that around that same timeframe a Russian airliner reported a "bright light from space" that illuminated the aircraft, and tracked them to their destination. It was right after one of the DOD shuttle flights.

    The speculation was it was a low-power test.

    I think both sides were playing around with beaming each other a little in those days. Their side from the ground, and our side from above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Men are in the cockpit to make life or death decisions on the spot, not because they're better at basic tasks than automated systems. In a modern aircraft all the pilot does is tell the computer what the end result needs to be and the computer makes it happen.



    The simple fact here is that people are people, and this section is sadly inaccurate. Ever heard of wikileaks? Sure, MOST people are willing to keep their word and not talk about things they're not supposed to talk about...but it only takes ONE person to ruin all that. Secrecy is not cheap OR easy. It's a tremendous pain in the ass, frankly.

    Edit: Get back to the actual topics though, that's the fun stuff.
    Yes, secrets do get out. The wikileaks secrets are a whole other kettle of fish compared to what we are discussing here. The wikileaks secrets were of the diplomatic kind and not technological. So, this is apples and oranges yes they are both fruit. But, they are different kinds.

    Many of the aviation engineers that I know claim the only reason we have not replaced pilots with drones on the fighter jet front is the brass want their joy ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    Do you have a reference for this? I am a bit skeptical as well. How long was this alleged tracking supposed to have lasted time wise? Was it hours, or minutes?
    It was a long time ago, I don't remember the details. IIRC it was in EE Times.

    Longer than minutes, shorter than hours. Night-time flight, the pilots reported the aircraft was illuminated by a bright light from space that lit up the inside of the plane. It remained on the plane for an extended period, until shortly before they landed at their destination.

    That's all I remember of the story.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    This is what I believe the UFO phenomenon is a PSYOP against the American People to keep them from knowing what to believe.
    OFFTOPIC: Read a REALLY good book about UFO's by an ex-Green Beret named Col. John B. Alexander; he had some very persuasive arguments as to why spending a lot of time and money investigating UFO sightings is a waste. He comes at the whole subject from a slightly different angle than the rest of us would, but it makes a lot of sense.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    Looked up his Wiki page I do not know what to make of the attribution that he want to use NLP as a Jedi Mind Trick. NLP is a lot of things but it is mostly PSYOP. I do not think that investigating UFO's is a waste of time. I think that the phenomenon is best explained in terms of Human Technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    OFFTOPIC: Read a REALLY good book about UFO's by an ex-Green Beret named Col. John B. Alexander; he had some very persuasive arguments as to why spending a lot of time and money investigating UFO sightings is a waste. He comes at the whole subject from a slightly different angle than the rest of us would, but it makes a lot of sense.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Crocket View Post
    Looked up his Wiki page I do not know what to make of the attribution that he want to use NLP as a Jedi Mind Trick. NLP is a lot of things but it is mostly PSYOP. I do not think that investigating UFO's is a waste of time. I think that the phenomenon is best explained in terms of Human Technology.
    I should have clarified that statement: his contention was that it was a waste of time for the MILITARY to spend a lot of time & money investigating UFO's; the military has a rather narrow view of what they should and should not be concerned with and, since UFO's do not pose a direct or obvious threat to the security of the United States, it is out of their purview. In the strict sense, they are correct, since we have "bigger fish to fry", and since there are more immediate and obvious threats to the security of the US right here on Earth already. That being said, UFO's still deserve study by civilian organizations such as SETI.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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