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Navy officer on carrier removed for relationship

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  • #16
    Was adultery, or even perceived adultery specifically against the wishes or orders of his higher ups? I know ship board romances are a no-no but that does not apply here.

    I am not convinced about the falling in love part. Maybe, maybe not. I'd still like to hear his part of the story before condemning him.



    *Look at the big picture here. Whats to say that either of their spouses become jealous and one pulls a gun and murders the other (or another weapon etc etc) or goes on a shooting spree like we have seen in the past media and injures others no even related to this. Now you have either an Officer dead or a soldier dead or out of availability. As mentioned and although this is extreme it is designed to guard against such possibilites.

    This is why the powers that be view that there is no room for this kind of instance in the military.

    And being that they themselves signed the dotted line, they belong to the US government until discharged by the US government. Therefore they shall abide by the rules of the UCMJ like anyone else.

    This is precisely why the powers that be take an interest in such things. As you mentioned above about the amount of money involved in training the two mentioned, a Captain and a soldier. The rules implied are merely protecting the US Governmnents investment and preserving the respect of Command.

    If they get discharged then no harm, no foul and they can do whatever as civilians. Until then, they are on the militarys time and money and have a job to do and rules to follow.

    IMO, The miltary is doing them both a favor by being involved this early on.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 11,, 20:29.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bonehead View Post
      I am not convinced about the falling in love part. Maybe, maybe not. I'd still like to hear his part of the story before condemning him.
      The in love part was implicit in the email released - I'd like to hear his story too - but I would be surprised if we do.
      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
        That's actually a good idea, there aren't any little children in the Navy, and therefore no distractions
        Ben,

        Knock it off. As a Catholic that is pretty damn offensive to me.
        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
          Was adultery, or even perceived adultery specifically against the wishes or orders of his higher ups? I know ship board romances are a no-no but that does not apply here.

          I am not convinced about the falling in love part. Maybe, maybe not. I'd still like to hear his part of the story before condemning him.



          *Look at the big picture here. Whats to say that either of their spouses become jealous and one pulls a gun and murders the other (or another weapon etc etc) or goes on a shooting spree like we have seen in the past media and injures others no even related to this. Now you have either an Officer dead or a soldier dead or out of availability. As mentioned and although this is extreme it is designed to guard against such possibilites.

          This is why the powers that be view that there is no room for this kind of instance in the military.

          And being that they themselves signed the dotted line, they belong to the US government until discharged by the US government. Therefore they shall abide by the rules of the UCMJ like anyone else.

          This is precisely why the powers that be take an interest in such things. As you mentioned above about the amount of money involved in training the two mentioned, a Captain and a soldier. The rules implied are merely protecting the US Governmnents investment and preserving the respect of Command.

          If they get discharged then no harm, no foul and they can do whatever as civilians. Until then, they are on the militarys time and money and have a job to do and rules to follow.

          IMO, The miltary is doing them both a favor by being involved this early on.
          Women can go over the edge and go on a rampage if the husband brings home the wrong brand of ice cream. So the bottom line is that if you are a captain of a capital ship in the U.S. Navy, they own you 24-7-365. Even though they trust you to command thousands of hands on a multi billion dollar weapon's platform, the Navy brass doesn't trust you on what you do on your own personal time. Wouldn't it be easier for everyone concerned if they just make eunuchs out of all the officers.

          Lastly, as a civilian I have no clue as to the military regulations he supposedly broke. Maybe that rout will help me understand.
          Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
            Women can go over the edge and go on a rampage if the husband brings home the wrong brand of ice cream. So the bottom line is that if you are a captain of a capital ship in the U.S. Navy, they own you 24-7-365. Even though they trust you to command thousands of hands on a multi billion dollar weapon's platform, the Navy brass doesn't trust you on what you do on your own personal time. Wouldn't it be easier for everyone concerned if they just make eunuchs out of all the officers.

            Lastly, as a civilian I have no clue as to the military regulations he supposedly broke. Maybe that rout will help me understand.
            As mentioned above, its the US governments way of ensuring that such a man in such a position keeps his focus. A nudging or sheparding way if you would. He is obviously very good at what he does and they want to make sure that stays his focus for as long as he does his job. Not a meaningless affair that would surely cause alot of consequences for many. As mentioned prior.. A very large amount of responsibility involved here in more ways then one.

            Its not necessarily all in print however insinuated due to his position. Like I also mentioned before..they wont give a @#$% if he chooses to be a civilian, not one bit. Until then he will do as ordered by authority if he wishes to keep his position plain and simple.

            When circumstances like this occur there is not alot of "grey" area as they see it and they give the orders.
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 14 Jul 11,, 03:58.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              As mentioned above, its the US governments way of ensuring that such a man in such a position keeps his focus. A nudging or sheparding way if you would. He is obviously very good at what he does and they want to make sure that stays his focus for as long as he does his job. Not a meaningless affair that would surely cause alot of consequences for many. As mentioned prior.. A very large amount of responsibility involved here in more ways then one.

              Its not necessarily all in print however insinuated due to his position. Like I also mentioned before..they wont give a @#$% if he chooses to be a civilian, not one bit. Until then he will do as ordered by authority if he wishes to keep his position plain and simple.

              When circumstances like this occur there is not alot of "grey" area as they see it and they give the orders.
              Still not clear on what exact orders he may or may not have followed, but I do understand that the higher up the command one gets the more of a God complex one tends to get.
              Nudging and shepherding? They threw him off a cliff in front of the whole world because he flirted with a random woman. Nudging would be to pull him aside, give him an azz chewing and a reprimand. If he does it a second time or repeatedly then ok, the cliff it is.
              Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                Still not clear on what exact orders he may or may not have followed, but I do understand that the higher up the command one gets the more of a God complex one tends to get.
                Nudging and shepherding? They threw him off a cliff in front of the whole world because he flirted with a random woman. Nudging would be to pull him aside, give him an azz chewing and a reprimand. If he does it a second time or repeatedly then ok, the cliff it is.
                *Not a God complex, just a man with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and an obligation. For all we know this could be past prior encounters. Remember you are reading the media and its interpitation not actual USN records. Grain of salt affect to see how things look later down the road when we see the ending of this.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                  *Not a God complex, just a man with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and an obligation. For all we know this could be past prior encounters. Remember you are reading the media and its interpitation not actual USN records. Grain of salt affect to see how things look later down the road when we see the ending of this.
                  Sorry I was not clear. The God complex was meant for those higher up on the chain of command. I hear you in the records part. That is one of the reasons I'd like to hear his side, or at least the whole story, and you are not going to get that from the mainstream media.
                  Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    Ben,

                    Knock it off. As a Catholic that is pretty damn offensive to me.
                    Sincerest apologies
                    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                    • #25
                      The officer's behavior is in conflict with the good order and discipline of his vessel. His actions violate the boundaries established between enlisted and commissioned personnel. It also calls to question his judgement and prejudices his ability to perform his duties with an appearance of impartiality.
                      "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                      "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by S2 View Post
                        The officer's behavior is in conflict with the good order and discipline of his vessel. His actions violate the boundaries established between enlisted and commissioned personnel. It also calls to question his judgement and prejudices his ability to perform his duties with an appearance of impartiality.
                        So it is improper to spend time with the woman even though she is serving in a different branch?
                        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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                        • #27
                          bonehead Reply

                          "So it is improper to spend time with the woman even though she is serving in a different branch?"

                          Improper?

                          Absolutely. He is a naval captain. O-6. Equivalent to a full Colonel in the Army. He sets the standard. As such, his conduct deserves close scrutiny.

                          We're not discussing a simple congressman here.
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by S2 View Post
                            "So it is improper to spend time with the woman even though she is serving in a different branch?"

                            Improper?

                            Absolutely. He is a naval captain. O-6. Equivalent to a full Colonel in the Army. He sets the standard. As such, his conduct deserves close scrutiny.


                            We're not discussing a simple congressman here.
                            Ok. That is something more concrete. I did not realize that as an officer he could not spend time with enlisted members of ANY branch. I still think the Navy would lose if they call it adultery although "fraternizing" would stick.
                            Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by S2 View Post
                              "So it is improper to spend time with the woman even though she is serving in a different branch?"

                              Improper?

                              Absolutely. He is a naval captain. O-6. Equivalent to a full Colonel in the Army. He sets the standard. As such, his conduct deserves close scrutiny.

                              We're not discussing a simple congressman here.
                              There is a huge difference, we're often ashamed of our congress people, we're normally very proud of our Navy Captains. They are expected to be role models and upstanding examples to all. I believe that what he did was an ordinary human thing to do, but his position is not an ordinary one.
                              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                              • #30
                                We have to be careful about putting people so high on pedestals that they can't live up to our expectations. People fail and that fact can not be changed. In this case, if the Navy brass truly felt his actions had irreparably diminished the effectiveness of his job and mission then so be it. If his demotion was a result of some prude with a God complex that got his knickers in a twist and went on a witch hunt, then this situation is a steaming pile of doo. Without more to go on, i.e. the context of his actions along with more background of the case, all we have is conjecture.
                                Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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