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Releasing Oil Reserves. Thoughts?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by S2 View Post
    The larger questions are can this buy time to get a sustained recovery in place and can America develop and implement a bipartisan energy policy that reaches beyond a junkie-like fix.
    S-2,

    I would be inclined to answer both of those questions "no".

    It is a fair assumption that energy prices are not the cause or the solution to the slow economic growth in the Untied States so I am not inclined to think government intervention in this area will have much on an effect.

    Regarding a "bipartisan energy policy", I do not see much political utility in a sound energy policy. The United States energy policy needs to be scientifically, technologically, industrially and economically correct for the vision at hand (and the Democrats and Republicans seem not to have a vision!), not partisan and politically correct. I agree a comprehensive policy is required, but the National party system would never allow for it.

    A comprehensive nat'l energy policy reached by bipartisan accord is long overdue.
    Even if such an energy policy were to materialize, the situation would not change much until a budget is passed, the tax code was not changed every other year, the Republic had a monetary policy beyond dubious and a fiscal policy to speak of.

    In a nutshell, the current regulatory and economic climate in the United States is uncertain and unfriendly to long lead time, capital intensive projects. As a result, energy investment will be conservative at best.

    Regards,

    William
    Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
      What I want to know is why they weren't adding to reserves when the price of crude dropped like a rock in 2009?
      We are talking about the same country that decided to sell its National Helium Reserve.
      Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
        Strategic oil reserve should be released only upon national emergencies. What is the national emergency here? Obama's low approval rating doesn't qualify.
        Gunnut,

        I don't think this was done for domestic political purposes. The President's spin machine will attempt to portray Mr. Obama to the Great, Grey and Unwashed Masses as the savior of Joe Six Pack's Summer vacation but there is more to it.
        Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

        Comment


        • #19
          I see this very much as a political move and a short term fix (a la S2) for political gain (a la gannut). The question nobody has adressed is suppose Saudi Arabia or somewhere else - Iran prehaps simply cuts production? What is the point having an strategic oil reserve if you alow a President use it politicaly? It should be renamed the political oil reserve.

          As for UK we are warned today of 20% increases in gas prices this winter (by gas we mean physicaly gas as opposed liquid petrol). The main reason for this is NOT increasing prices in Russia or lack of supply markets shifting their money out of Euros etc and onto 110% sound bets thus driving the prices up. The Nabucco line is just about agreed and medium term capacity of natural gas supply to Europe should rise. (Nabucco is designed to avoid Russian influence).

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Swift Sword View Post
            Gunnut,

            I don't think this was done for domestic political purposes. The President's spin machine will attempt to portray Mr. Obama to the Great, Grey and Unwashed Masses as the savior of Joe Six Pack's Summer vacation but there is more to it.
            When does Obama NOT do anything for domestic political purposes?

            Wait, don't answer that. I found some examples:

            1. Bombing Libya
            2. Obama World Tour of Apology
            3. Bowing to Saudi king
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

            Comment


            • #21
              Wont' those strategic reserve need to be replenished again? Don't we just love kicking the can down the road.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                When does Obama NOT do anything for domestic political purposes?
                When does any politician not think of reelection first?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  I don't think you understand how our government works.

                  1. Raise taxes.
                  2. Spend projected income.
                  3. People alter behavior due to higher cost.
                  4. Deficit occurs due to rosy forecast doesn't mesh with reality.
                  5. Deeper hole.

                  This is why we are in debt in the first place. Let's not make it worse.
                  raise taxes????? I thought the rosy forcasts were used to cut taxes? We have cut taxes for 10 yrs inclusing 2009 and 2010 and 2011 when did federal taxes go up? I disagree with releasing the oil but it is a small percentage. I think in a 'to bad for us moment ' our needing more petroleum to do damn near anything anyone else does is coming home to roost due to the rest of the world being able to compete with us in expenditures to buy it and we better get used to it. "They" said when the recovery started the prices would shoot back up and "they" seem to of been right. It's a limited supply till the price rises and stays up then old and new sources will look good and someone might make a way to get shale oil without turning a state into a hazmat zone. It is worth noting what's been released is a tiny fraction of what Bush added when prices were cheap ealy in his Presidency...well done W. I guess everyone gets something right ;)
                  Last edited by Roosveltrepub; 28 Jun 11,, 23:27.
                  Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                  ~Ronald Reagan

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kato View Post
                    When does any politician not think of reelection first?
                    never? reguardless of party or country
                    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                    ~Ronald Reagan

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kato View Post
                      When does any politician not think of reelection first?
                      Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                      never? reguardless of party or country
                      So we are in agreement. Obama released strategic oil reserve as a personal political stunt rather than for any real emergency.
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                        raise taxes????? I thought the rosy forcasts were used to cut taxes? We have cut taxes for 10 yrs inclusing 2009 and 2010 and 2011 when did federal taxes go up? I disagree with releasing the oil but it is a small percentage. I think in a 'to bad for us moment ' our needing more petroleum to do damn near anything anyone else does is coming home to roost due to the rest of the world being able to compete with us in expenditures to buy it and we better get used to it. "They" said when the recovery started the prices would shoot back up and "they" seem to of been right. It's a limited supply till the price rises and stays up then old and new sources will look good and someone might make a way to get shale oil without turning a state into a hazmat zone. It is worth noting what's been released is a tiny fraction of what Bush added when prices were cheap ealy in his Presidency...well done W. I guess everyone gets something right ;)
                        California has raised taxes repeatedly over the last 20 years. Yet our deficit is higher than ever.

                        There you go again, Bush this and Bush that. Is it possible for you to go through one day without mentioning Bush?
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          California has raised taxes repeatedly over the last 20 years. Yet our deficit is higher than ever.

                          There you go again, Bush this and Bush that. Is it possible for you to go through one day without mentioning Bush?
                          LOL I mentioned him to complement a wise move. federal taxes are at the lowest level since the 1950s PERIOD. People dont want to end medicare and medicaid or social security or decimate defense. You can't keep cutting taxes and pay for all that can you? CA passed all sorts of limits on property taxes I am sorry if you aren't one of the people benefitting for that despite the increase in other taxes. I also think although I'd rather feel the economic impact a case can be made for trying to prevent oil prices from ending a weak recovery and turning us toward recession again by releasing a few percent. I'd rather save it for time of embargo or war which will no doubt come since idiots are idiots and people are people.
                          Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                          ~Ronald Reagan

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            LOL I mentioned him to complement a wise move. federal taxes are at the lowest level since the 1950s PERIOD.
                            Now you think cutting taxes is a good thing?

                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            People dont want to end medicare and medicaid or social security or decimate defense.
                            There's a difference between "want" and "need." I want a Ferrari and a mansion. I need a car and a place to live. We have to cut the so-called non-discretionary spending at some point.

                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            You can't keep cutting taxes and pay for all that can you?
                            Not all of it. Scale back Medicare to 1965 levels (or whenever it was passed) as in providing basic medical care for seniors. Not hip replacement surgeries for all and keep patients alive at tax-payers' expense. You want expensive surgeries and keep people alive on machines, you pay for it. There are no laws saying you can't pay for your own.

                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            CA passed all sorts of limits on property taxes
                            Bullshit. CA passed ONE limit on property taxes, prop.13. Liberals have been trying to kill it for the last 30 years.

                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            I am sorry if you aren't one of the people benefitting for that despite the increase in other taxes.
                            I do benefit from it, but I pay for it in other areas. Remember, the government can invent "fees" and separate a single tax into multiple taxes to cover the loss of one tax. It makes the laws and is almost criminal.

                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            I also think although I'd rather feel the economic impact a case can be made for trying to prevent oil prices from ending a weak recovery and turning us toward recession again by releasing a few percent. I'd rather save it for time of embargo or war which will no doubt come since idiots are idiots and people are people.
                            Wait, you're saying a lower energy price is GOOD for the economic recovery? Does that mean lower energy price is GOOD for the economy, period? If so, what does that make Steven Chu, who is Obama's energy guy and publicly stated that he wanted to see gasoline price here rise to that of European levels?
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Wooglin View Post
                              What I want to know is why they weren't adding to reserves when the price of crude dropped like a rock in 2009?
                              We either were, or it was already full. We have a capacity of 727 Million bbl, which is where it was at before this release.

                              I am all for using the SPR as a market weapon. I say we dump another 60 million barrels, chase a few speculators out of the market, then buy it back at lower prices.

                              Whenever it gets pushed up, you make a surprise dump then buy it back at lower prices. Gotta keep those assholes guessing.

                              Pipeline in Nigeria gets bombed? 20 million barrels. Hurricane in the gulf? 30 million barrels.

                              Just announcing a release has an effect on the market. When Bush 41 did it in 2001, we didn't even have to sell but a tiny bit of what we said we were going to sell. The signal was enough, and we went right into Iraq without an oil price spike of any kind.
                              "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Wait, don't answer that. I found some examples:

                                1. Bombing Libya
                                2. Obama World Tour of Apology
                                3. Bowing to Saudi king
                                Hi Gunnut,

                                Pursuant to the topic at hand, your Door #3 might be worth a closer look.

                                The KSA did acquiesce to the SPR release after some secret negotiations with the Obama Administration. They have traditionally been opposed to such things, IIRC.

                                Turk al Faisal had in the past had suggested that Iran's oil sector was vulnerable to price manipulations and that such could set back their fission weapon program. He also seemed to imply that KSA would pursue nuclear weapons if Iran got them (or to close). Both statements have great strategic implications for many of the parties currently pledging to manipulate the oil markets.

                                Maybe I am seeing things where they are not but the timing of the coordinated release of reserves and the players involved does present a pattern that seems to point to more than just one leader's poor polling.

                                William
                                Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

                                Comment

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