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Pakistan likely to use Nuclear weapons on India "a few days" into war: US ambassador

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
    Stereotypes exist on both sides. Your side actually makes policies on them.
    Not signing the NFU is actually a lack of policy.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
      FUBAR comes to mind.
      FUBAR came to mind a long time ago.

      Wishful thinking but most of Pakistan's issues are related to its fundamental lack of justice, not an insidious plot by India.
      There is no insidious plot. Just leaving you alone to do what you know best. That it serves us well, and comes gratis, is something we'll take all the same.

      The issue in question was what perpetuates the stereotype that a Pakistani nuclear roar is enough India.
      Stereotypes are all you have as balm for your self-inflicted wounds. We don't grudge you that.

      That I'd agree with you, but those are points for powers other than India :).
      It hurts all the same. That your forefathers would choose not to live with us, only to have their future generations under foreign yoke once again. What a waste of so many many lives, getting you something that you so happily frittered away.

      You put too much weight into the opinions of forum kiddies. China's and Pakistan's relationship didn't grow leaps and bounds on May 2nd as some bigger idiots out of Pakistan's borders seem to perpetuate. Its a healthy relationship IMO - definitely not fitting the "mai-baap" analogy.
      You have handed over your friggin' soil to them man, with nary a whimper. Mai-baap is polite net talk for what we really see it as.

      Lack of education has nothing to do with the lack of humanity, I don't see India's doctor's acting any better than "raving religious zealots frothing at the mouth" here either.
      You mean the doctors who forget you are Pakistani and treat and cure thousands of your countrymen, women and kids when they come over?

      About giving in to the US, it'll be a foolish argument to think that this exists today or has been for a long time with the consent of the Pakistani people. Big things are happening in Pakistan, you can mock all you want, it won't change the reality.
      That's the really sad part. If I was Pakistani, I would welcome Indian mocking if it would goad me into changing my reality.

      Finally on topic. No one in Pakistan is convinced that if India could destroy Pakistan, it would voluntarily opt out of taking that decisions.
      Pakistan is so convinced that India cannot destroy it, that in the release of delirious relief Pakistanis are happily destroying yourselves.

      Pakistan is like the fat man who religiously has diet Coke ..... with his five-pounder cheese burger and fries.

      Pakistan is like the bimbo on the beach who carefully sunscreens the front of her body ..... then turns over and lies down prone on the towel.

      Pakistan is like the bellicose pygmy prodding a sleeping giant ...... but who's managed to beg borrow steal just enough armor to cover his front, while his bottom lies exposed flapping in the breeze.

      FUBAR.

      Cheers, Doc

      Edit: Removed usage in the first person for forum rule compliance.
      Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Jun 11,, 12:23.

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      • #93
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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        • #94
          [QUOTE=S2;813244]"That's because they still believe that one of the militaries will not be around much long and will still be willing to reign-in the other one....Always."

          Major,

          If so then GHQ Rawalpindi has it half correct. We (our counter-insurgent forces) will likely be gone en toto by 2015. I highly doubt an American security presence will disappear altogether though. I do expect counter-terror elements to remain in Afghanistan or be based offshore in the Indian ocean for some undetermined time beyond 2015.
          Steve,

          I always anticipated that. Never really thought that post 2015, the US is really going to remove all its footprints from that theatre. Never thought though that an offshore presence was on the cards and would suffice.

          Reigning-in the Indian military by America is problematic. India charts a highly independant foreign and nat'l security policy. It's proven largely immune to outside interference and any constraint for whatever reason attempted by America would only occur in concert with other nations. Even so such is not necessarily likely to be effective.
          Steve,

          I and you know that India sure charts an independent national/foreign security policy as evident by the number of times our nation have agreed to disagree, even while finalising "strategic defence deals". ;)
          That being said, you also know that you have means far beyond your neccessities and we have limitations far exceeding our neccessities.

          GHQ Rawalpindi would be well-served to re-evaluate this premise if they believe otherwise.
          I would really really not like India to get into such a tight spot vis-a-vis the USA, if someday it really becomes imperative to wake up the Pak Generals from their 60 years cat-nap.
          sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            No, the most primary reason. The Pakistani military does not trust it can defeat an Indian invasion.
            Sir,

            I would suggest you to take this with a bunch of salt. Your basic premise is correct, but then you have to separeate the rank from the file.
            sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by vsdoc View Post
              You are so convinced that India cannot destroy you, that in the release of delirious relief you are happily destroying yourselves.

              You are like the fat man who religiously has diet Coke ..... with his five-pounder cheese burger and fries.

              You are like the bimbo on the beach who carefully sunscreens the front of her body ..... then turns over and lies down prone on the towel.

              You are like the bellicose pygmy prodding a sleeping giant ...... but who's managed to beg borrow steal just enough armor to cover his front, while his bottom lies exposed flapping in the breeze.

              FUBAR.

              Cheers, Doc
              Meeh, silly warmongering...

              Edit: for forum rule compliance :)
              Last edited by Asim Aquil; 15 Jun 11,, 12:00.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                No, the most primary reason. The Pakistani military does not trust it can defeat an Indian invasion.

                The same reason why NATO never gave up first use.
                I don't like to play into this internet warrior trap (with rude and offensive behavior thats beneath me) a few people here seem to be interested in. Its tough for me as a Pakistani to ever imagine an Indian invasion and to think I can't do anything about it. Thats the way we are wired, we know how to teeth we would fight such an occurrence when push comes to shove, but given the fact they are larger, armed better, better economy its all a likelihood.

                However coming back to the NFU, we expect India to be on the prowl for an opportunity of invasion. It doesn't help when its religious hardliners often keep claiming about glorious futures with Akhand Bharat (Unified India) and comparing the invasion as simple as walking in all over us. If no NFU scares the bejeezes out of such a sick expansionist mentality within some quarters in India, we will continue to ignore India's pleas on it.
                Last edited by Asim Aquil; 15 Jun 11,, 12:01.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
                  I don't like to play into this internet warrior trap (with rude and offensive behavior thats beneath me) many people here seem to be interested in. Its tough for me as a Pakistani to ever imagine an Indian invasion and to think I can't do anything about it. Thats the way we are wired, we know how to teeth we would fight such an occurrence when push comes to shove, but given the fact they are larger, armed better, better economy its all a likelihood.

                  However coming back to the NFU, we expect India to be on the prowl for an opportunity of invasion. It doesn't help when its religious hardliners often keep claiming about glorious futures with Akhand Bharat (Unified India) and comparing the invasion as simple as walking in all over us. If no NFU scares the bejeezes out of such a sick expansionist mentality within some quarters in India, we will continue to ignore India's pleas on it.

                  Dude, I think even the RSS doesn't subscribe to the Akhand Bharat theory. OTOH I believe plenty of people actually believe that Ghazwa-E-Hind will happen judging from the posts in PDF and the popularity of Zaid Hamid...
                  Seek Save Serve Medic

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by 667medic View Post
                    Dude, I think even the RSS doesn't subscribe to the Akhand Bharat theory. OTOH I believe plenty of people actually believe that Ghazwa-E-Hind will happen judging from the posts in PDF and the popularity of Zaid Hamid...
                    http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/repor...bharat_1400929

                    However I would agree that most Indians haven't even heard of the term, for that matter, neither did Pakistanis knew about Ghazwa-e-Hind before all the Indians immortalized Zaid Hamid. For most Pakistanis hes a nut job who is already past his 15 minutes of fame. Nowadays anyone found praising Zaid Hamid comes back with eggs on their face.

                    The reality of Pakistan - India war itself is far fetched despite what internet warriors want to believe. Pakistanis are sick of war and would not wish to get into a fight with India. The stereotypes however exist in picking the absolute worst comments from our sides and thinking this is the enemies policy.

                    At some point this has to end. At some point we got to be nice to each other.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
                      At some point this has to end. At some point we got to be nice to each other.
                      At some point we have to stop the export of terror proxies to do our fighting for us.

                      After that we can try being nice to each other, based on how easy we find it on neutral soil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by vsdoc View Post
                        At some point we have to stop the export of terror proxies to do our fighting for us.

                        After that we can try being nice to each other, based on how easy we find it on neutral soil.
                        It's not about neutral soil, vsdoc, I just feel like growing up now. Let go of the past, hostilities with India just don't interest me much. Sooner or later you will come to the same conclusion.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Deltacamelately View Post
                          Steve,

                          I always anticipated that. Never really thought that post 2015, the US is really going to remove all its footprints from that theatre. Never thought though that an offshore presence was on the cards and would suffice.
                          You might want to read this. Apparently there is sufficient wiggle room still.

                          Moving to President Obama's declaration of drawing back US Forces from Afghanistan from July 2011 onwards, the point that needs to be made is that it was a declaration of intent which necessarily was to be determined by ground realities obtaining in Afghanistan in July 2011. The intent was not for a US military exit from Afghanistan in July 2011 but the likely commencement of a process.
                          A safe bet on the quantum of US Forces that could be reduced from Afghanistan would be about 30,000 to 40,000.This is the quantum of US Forces that President Obama ordered deployed in 2009 as part of his 'surge strategy'.

                          This would still leave about 70,000 US troops still deployed in Afghanistan to ensure its stability and security.

                          With such a quantum of US Forces being recalled to the United States, President Obama would have fulfilled his intentions declared in 2009, deflect any domestic criticism in a presidential election year of not living upto his pledges and at the same time not endangering Afghanistan's security substantially.
                          The author then deftly turns the issue on its head

                          in the future it is quite likely that events in Pakistan may prompt the United States to revise its perceptions that the strategic significance of Afghanistan outweighs that of Pakistan in the US strategic calculus.
                          Can you imagine that ?
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Jun 11,, 12:47.

                          Comment


                          • Somewhere down the line, there will be some form of absorption of Nepal, Bangladesh, as well as Sri Lanka under the Indian security umbrella, as is already in place in Bhutan. If that is Akhand Bharat, it makes good sense. Bhagwat is not preaching invasion and occupation here. He is speaking of an Indian power block. Probably something like the EU with regard to visas and currency as well.
                            Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Jun 11,, 12:50.

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                            • Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
                              It's not about neutral soil, vsdoc, I just feel like growing up now. Let go of the past, hostilities with India just don't interest me much. Sooner or later you will come to the same conclusion.
                              I did my growing up quite some time before you young man. And as a nation we outgrew Pakistan quite some time ago as well. Sooner or later you will come to the same realization. To the extent that in most areas the gulf is too asymmetric to be even relevant now. India would be pleased to live and let live without hostility and allow you the breathing space you require to set your house in order. But if the violence from within your shores spills over on to ours, then hostility is a natural by product, be it of interest to you or any other Pakistani at a personal level or not.
                              Last edited by vsdoc; 15 Jun 11,, 13:04.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                                .....Can you imagine that ?
                                DE,

                                Thank you for the good read. Its really tough to anticipate things that will be coming out from that part of the world, few years down the line.
                                sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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