Proof..the truth starts to come about

[S2]

The physical size of the lot upon which the house rests is enormous by every indication I've read. All of this rather massive property is contained within some rather imposing walls. Even so, where the home of very typical dimensions (whatever that might be) doesn't preclude it's unusual location in a community that's a virtual military cantonment.

[Yusuf]

Sorry Sir, may be a lot of Indians in forum world stay in the US, but they sure don't act like how most Pakistanis do.

India has ilover the years given ample proof of how Pakistan has used terrorism as an instrument of state policy, but the world at large chose to ignore it. The US fought the war on terror on the wrong side of the Durand line after the initial invasion.

Only apprehension is that the US might once again "forgive" Pakistan in return for favors in Astan. Policy needs a complete review.

[Yusuf]

The size of the house for once if considered typical, but if the residents don't come out of it at all is surely suspicious. Burning if trash inside the compound too is not typical. We may have high compound walls alrite, but why the 7 foot wall on the third floor?

[Agnostic Muslim]

Getting a little paranoid and frustrated at not having any credible evidence or arguments are we?
It May surprise you, but there are more than just one Pakistani commentators online who can offer articulate and coherent arguments and take the positions I do.

Ive posted nothing but facts and links to provide reference.

I was referring to your post about 'me liking myself' ostensibly suggesting that Notorious Eagle was a duplicate ID that I was using to back up my own arguments. Such childish games might be something you like to do, I have never had time for them, since I have always enjoyed debating and usually back myself to substantiate my arguments.

All you have provided are excuses without fact nor reference. Now who's bullshitting who?;)

What facts and references illustrating ISI complicity have you provided? You have pointed to the size of the house and the location, and on both those counts I have offered counter arguments which you refuse to acknowledge or refute, choosing to merely regurgitate your original argument of 'the house was so big and it was in XYZ town'.

The house was neither unusual by Pakistani standards, nor was it in an area where 'house searches' were routine without reason. Also keep in mind Panetta's own statements that despite surveillance from satellites, observation posts and local intel, for several months, they were only 60% to 80% confident that OBL lived there.

I would also like to know if you feel free to disclose why you removed the city of Michigan from your moniker. Perhaps giving yourself a bit of a credible position maybe in making it souly Lahore?

Funny how that changed when these threads started.

Again, you are paranoid and delusional - I have changed nothing in my profile in months, not since the last time I was posting on WAB, which was several months before the OBL episode.

And pray tell how exactly that is related to the topic in any case?

[Agnostic Muslim]

Pakistan is dependent on billions of foreign aid from IMF and US and they have the audacity to call Americans "filthy?"

Agnostic Muslim is living in Michigan, receiving education benefits, and freedoms that our US soldiers provide, and AM is talking this filth? Is this typical Pakistani culture?

Isn't willful blindness a survival mechanism in Pakistan?

Why don't Pakistan make al qaeda provide money and education to better Pakistan instead of making it a hell hole?

What are you going on about - where have I called Americans 'filthy'?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending Pakistan against unsubstantiated propaganda by the US media and establishment. It is not my fault that your media and lawmakers are making outrageous allegations without any credible evidence whatsoever. Tell them to shut up until they can prove their case and you won't have these arguments.

[highsea]

I do not believe Pakistan is asking for domestic production of the Predator or Reader - the reference to technology is in the context of providing equipment.

Good grief. Predator is part of a system. The drones are just the end link of a long chain. There are many other assets that integrate- Rivet Joint, E-3, reconnaissance and communications satellites, portable battlefield computers, etc.

It's not something that can be transferred. The most the US can do is provide the intel that the system provides.

And as S-2 has already noted, it wouldn't change Pakistan's priorities.

The entire Pakistani debate surrounding transferring Predator to Pakistan is a propaganda argument. Pakistan couldn't use it if they did have it. You seem to think it's just some RC plane with a missile attached. That's about as far from reality as you can get.

You can't operate Predator in a vaccuum. Absent the satellites and UAS compatible platforms, Predator is nothing. The US will not turn over control of the supporting assets to any country- and even if we could, Pakistan would be somewhere alongside Iran on the list.

Pakistan already has as much of Predator as they can get, which is to say they operate from Pakistani airfields.

[highsea]

...It is not my fault that your media and lawmakers are making outrageous allegations without any credible evidence whatsoever. Tell them to shut up until they can prove their case and you won't have these arguments.

You are so full of shit.

You haven't a shred of evidence to back any of your claims, other than some unnamed "senior intelligence and military persons" in Pakistani media.

Like we are supposed to take the word of the very people whose treachery we have exposed to the entire world.

What a joke you are.

[Agnostic Muslim]

You are so full of shit.

You haven't a shred of evidence to back any of your claims, other than some unnamed "senior intelligence and military persons" in Pakistani media.

Like we are supposed to take the word of the very people whose treachery we have exposed to the entire world.

What a joke you are.

I am not making any claims I have to substantiate here, the US media and you guys are, that Pakistani institutions were complicit in hiding OBL.

If anyone has to prove anything it is you lot - Pakistan cannot prove a negative.

[highsea]

Then you are just retreating to ignorance/incompetence.

We snatched him from an ISI safe house on an army base.

So yes, Pakistan has to come up with a credible explanation.

[Agnostic Muslim]

We snatched him from an ISI safe house on an army base.

So yes, Pakistan has to come up with a credible explanation.

Those are both untrue statements - the house was neither an 'ISI safe-house' nor was it on an 'Army Base'.

That you would think to make such absurd claims when there is not a shred of evidence supporting them is perhaps not a surprise given the behavior of the US media and certain US lawmakers.

[Agnostic Muslim]

We snatched him from an ISI safe house on an army base.

So yes, Pakistan has to come up with a credible explanation.

Those are both untrue statements - the house was neither an 'ISI safe-house' nor was it on an 'Army Base'.

That you would think to make such absurd claims when there is not a shred of evidence supporting them is perhaps not a surprise given the behavior of the US media and certain US lawmakers.

[S2]

A.M. Reply

A.M.,

You're making double posts here and on the other thread. Just a head's up.

"We snatched him from an ISI safe house on an army base."

I won't go that far...yet. I don't know that the location was an ISI safehouse nor can determine how anybody else might. If so, I'd sure expect more personal protection assets than seemed present.

Moreover, it certainly wasn't an actual military base. The community, though, possesses an inordinate amount of military assets in the surrounding areas and also serves as a retirement community to a goodly portion of former officers and public officials from my understanding.

[highsea]

...I won't go that far...yet.

Yes, technically not "on the base". It was 750 yards away. Close enough as far as I am concerned.

Big house walled off, fake entrance, 14' walls, razor wire. OBL living there for 5 years. Tall guy, long beard.....

I can buy the civilian leaders being ignorant. Zardari has no control of anything.

But the ISI and PA? Give me a break.

"We inspected the house" Sure.

PA General: "Who is living next door?"
ISI Chief: "That's Osama's house, sir"
PA General: "Oh, okay."

[Mihais]

Sir,without ISI documents it indeed impossible to prove as for a court of law that there was a safe-house.Highly doubtful we'll get one of those,but one never knows.However intelligence and military decision-makers do not and cannot operate based on lawyer-proof information.That doesn't makes said intel wrong and not actionable though.
If more information about the circumstances of the said neighborhood contradicts what we have until now,I'll modify my position.Until then,however,this one is blatant.I can only hope that there was indeed a shady deal(or the deal was in prospect).Otherwise we might have a tragedy sooner rather than later.

[highsea]

Sir,without ISI documents it indeed impossible to prove as for a court of law that there was a safe-house.

Of course. I don't expect to get such documents.

Common sense is common sense. If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck.

Like Pari said- gilded cage.

They let him continue to operate for all that time out of that house. I can sort of understand them wanting a bargaining chip. It fits their twisted way of thinking.

But they didn't neutralize him, which makes them our enemy.

There's no way around that.