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India capable of US-like operation: Army chief

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Actually, it was SIGINT that started this whole thing.
    There is some confusion over WHO provided the first tip. Have seen some reports that it was the Pakistani's that did it. The US did the needful afterward.

    How else do you find a needle in as big a haystack as Pakistan. You might have the best algorithms & computing power in the world but what could they do without that initial tip.

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    • #17
      S2, The man was talking about india's "capability" to execute such a covert operation. He's emphasising the "action" part.
      Last edited by nvishal; 13 May 11,, 18:31.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by astralis View Post
        although statements such as the one by singh really don't make the indian armed forces look any better. somewhat akin to the inadequate man bragging how he's JUST as big... much better if he just said "i will not discuss our capabilities in open forum. end of story."
        It serves its psy-ops purpose. Now every high-value terrorist operating out of Pakjab and POK has to worry if Indians will eventually try something similar; the highest value ones will shift westwards ~ this will at the very least lower the morale of their cadres and make some operations harder, or even better it make them Predator food Secondarily the Paks now have to invest in more air-defense assets, which means less money for other offensive assets.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Cactus View Post
          It serves its psy-ops purpose. Now every high-value terrorist operating out of Pakjab and POK has to worry if Indians will eventually try something similar; the highest value ones will shift westwards ~ this will at the very least lower the morale of their cadres and make some operations harder, or even better it make them Predator food Secondarily the Paks now have to invest in more air-defense assets, which means less money for other offensive assets.
          I doubt it. Such bluster has been a part of the regular vocabulary of many Indian politicians and officials. Unless it is matched by action on the ground (which I do not see happening any time soon) everyone understands that it is what it is, empty bluster. This might excite some folks on the web forums but I doubt it would rile up anyone else.

          Having said that, I still find it hard to wrap my head around the complete non-response to the invasion of Pakistani air space. The Stealth helos things and interference of radar due to geography is all fine, it still sounds sorta sci-fi ish and frankly a bit scary on how much the US can achieve.
          "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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          • #20
            antimony, to talk about grand operational revolutions (like the so-called CSD) is blustering (when not accompanied by revolutionary changes in the military) -- to talk of small-scale targetted raids and active wet operations is well within the realm of plausibility (when accompanied by actual capabilities of the InSOF). And I give would give additional credence to the COAS's words because of a little tab he occasionally wears, which should say something about his personal expertise on these matters. There is calculated skepticism, and then there is casual dismissal, and methinks you are treading on the later.

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            • #21
              It serves its psy-ops purpose. Now every high-value terrorist operating out of Pakjab and POK has to worry if Indians will eventually try something similar; the highest value ones will shift westwards ~ this will at the very least lower the morale of their cadres and make some operations harder, or even better it make them Predator food Secondarily the Paks now have to invest in more air-defense assets, which means less money for other offensive assets.
              I don't think Dawood is terribly worried about an Indian raid.
              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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              • #22
                Originally posted by troung View Post
                I don't think Dawood is terribly worried about an Indian raid.
                Dawood bhai is in Karachi by most accounts, so this kinds of military raids would never have been of much concern to him (he has more to fear from his brothers and lieutenents). I was instead referring to the senior leaders of Kashmir and Pakjab based terrorist outfits: some of the wilder ones moved their camps to Khyber-Pakthunwa after disagreements with Gen Musharraf about lying low until Americans go, and have since become Predator prey.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  How else do you find a needle in as big a haystack as Pakistan. You might have the best algorithms & computing power in the world but what could they do without that initial tip.
                  somebody talked ,that is certain, on the WHO part ,I guess we would never know.
                  J'ai en marre.

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                  • #24
                    nvishal Reply

                    "He's emphasising the "action" part."

                    So am I. I seriously doubt you could have penetrated Pakistani airspace undetected for the best part of 2-3 hours and conduct the raid without interference in some manner.
                    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 1979 View Post
                      somebody talked ,that is certain, on the WHO part ,I guess we would never know.
                      Right, because Paksitan does not want to take any credit for this.

                      However if that were the case Hillary would not have thanked them from their 'assistance'.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by S2 View Post
                        "He's emphasising the "action" part."

                        So am I. I seriously doubt you could have penetrated Pakistani airspace undetected for the best part of 2-3 hours and conduct the raid without interference in some manner.
                        I imagine that penetrating Pakistani airspace from the east is a completely different proposition than penetrating from the west. Over the past few years, the Pakistanis have probably become used to seeing(or not) all manner of strange aircraft coming in from the west, while their level of vigilance towards the east is unchanged.

                        For that reason alone, I think that India would be facing a greater challenge than the U.S. did.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by antimony View Post
                          Having said that, I still find it hard to wrap my head around the complete non-response to the invasion of Pakistani air space. The Stealth helos things and interference of radar due to geography is all fine, it still sounds sorta sci-fi ish and frankly a bit scary on how much the US can achieve.
                          I don't think anybody will ever REALLY know how much the US can achieve; the fact that we didn't even know that those "stealth" Blackhawks existed until now (and they've probably been around for five years by now) gives you an idea of what the US is capable of.
                          "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by S2 View Post
                            Nonetheless, the penetration of Pakistani airspace was simply marvelous. I'm unconvinced there were many other nations capable of executing such.
                            If the "Special -60 Varient Helo" was critical to the penetration of Pakistani Airspace, then I have to say the number of other nation capable of this task are ZERO. Now the UK has 7 Sqdn RAF which is a dedicated SF support unit, but with the UK's budget there is no way they have as 'Fancy" toys as the 160th SOAR. I espect this to be true of most "near peers" to the US military, im sure lots have trigger pullers on par with the best US units, buts its that whole "Support Structure" thing that raises teh US well beyond what most others could hope to accomplish.

                            Regards

                            Arty
                            "Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations".- Motto of the Gun Crew who have just done something incredibly stupid!!!!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              Right, because Paksitan does not want to take any credit for this.

                              However if that were the case Hillary would not have thanked them from their 'assistance'.
                              Because she's the sec of Department of States, she's paid to please people, not to tell the truth. In this case, she's doing the damage control regarding the relationship with Pak

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                              • #30
                                A.E. Reply

                                "I espect this to be true of most "near peers" to the US military, im sure lots have trigger pullers on par with the best US units..."

                                From the point of hover to reboarding I've little doubt there are many qualified to conduct the op. The target didn't prove especially difficult in any case.
                                "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                                "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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