Osama Bin Laden is dead and his corpse is in US hands.

[Dreadnought]

I beg off you, please take this aid away from us. Instead of helping us it is literally crippling us, this WOT has brought us nothing but misery. Its a good time that Pakistan should start planning its exit strategy, $60 billion in damages and 30 000 people dead for a war that was never ours to begin with.

And Im laughing at you knowing that millions of people would disagree with you outright. Trust me, if it was up to me that money would be better spent on our retired troops and poor here in the US much better then paying for something we havent gotten in cooperation and trust.

This WOT would not have come to you if Pakistan wasnt home to terror organizations operating from your so called "Soverign" soil. The reason why we have to invade your so called "Soverign" soil is because your forces refuse to deal with it and your government vehemitly denies it as if everyone lies but themselves.

Trust me if I could Pakistan wouldn't see one dam dime in aid, and to think outside of your "aid" package what the US has done for that country including flood and earthquake aid.

By your own remarks it seems you would have rather those people perish.

A dam shame when something is asked in return huh? Especially something that deals with such subjects and requires balls against those you fear.

Im arguing with a child.

[notorious_eagle]

Watch what you wish for.... cuz I'm all for it. ;) 1.3 billion a year we can spend at home.

Only $300 million of that was actually released but please by all means, keep this money at home. I urge all Americans to call up their representatives and demand that they cut off all aid to Pakistan. This aid is a like a drug, its making things worse for Pakistan. The suspension of this aid is the kick our politicians need to enact the reforms that are needed to strengthen the fiscal situation of the country. Last i read, the WOT causes damages of approximately $8 billion to Pakistan's economy annually. Compared to that, $1.3 billion is peanuts ;).

[S2]

notorious eagle Reply

"I beg off you, please take this aid away from us."

Your war has little to do with aid and everything to do with the radicalization of some of your more gullible tribal males by the afghan taliban and A.Q. They've long bought into the notion of a transcedent islamist caliphate.

Do you really think their worldview would be changed were your most visible patrons the PRC instead of us? They're godless commies for Christ's sake!

Nek Mohammad and Baitullah Mehsud had long sucked at the nipple of Omar's breast. Well before 9/11. Their purpose was clear long before that fateful morning. Inviting the defeated remnants of the afghan taliban government onto your lands and bestowing sumptuous sanctuary was hardly a signal missed by your local tribesmen

When your army unsuccessfully treated with Nek Mohammad, Mullah F.M. and othes they saw your weakness. And you WERE weak. Pakistan didn't lift a finger against its own internal rebellion between 2002 and 2008 when finally it took on a limited offensive in Bajaur. Even then your army and government reacted with near paralytic somolence when the TTP nearly captured Swat and Buner.

The rest of the world had to BEG Pakistan to defend itself.

This isn't about our aid.

Your problems reach far, far deeper than anything simple greenbacks (even abundantly distributed) can touch.

OTOH, you'll finally have an opportunity to see just whether your "all weather" allies are everything you tout. Prepare yourselves. Granting them control of Gwadar is the least you'll be asked.

[notorious_eagle]

And Im laughing at you knowing that millions of people would disagree with you outright. Trust me, if it was up to me that money would be better spent on our retired troops and poor here in the US much better then paying for something we havent gotten in cooperation and trust.

I would love to know who those millions of people are considering the fact that Pakistan has suffered far more in damages to its economy as compared to the aid it has received.

This WOT would not have come to you if Pakistan wasnt home to terror organizations operating from your so called "Soverign" soil. The reason why we have to invade your so called "Soverign" soil is because your forces refuse to deal with it and your government vehemitly denies it as if everyone lies but themselves.

We became part home to these organizations after the US invaded Afghanistan. NATO forces should be more focused on controlling Afghanistan than worrying about Pakistan, we all know how successful NATO's operations have been in Afghanistan. But no point of discussing that on this thread since we will be going off topic. Pakistan is doing the best it can considering how much resources she has at her disposal, unlike NATO we are not gifted with unlimited resources.

Trust me if I could Pakistan wouldn't see one dam dime in aid, and to think outside of your "aid" package what the US has done for that country including flood and earthquake aid.

By your own remarks it seems you would have rather those people perish.

The aid that was provided for earthquake and flood was humanitarian and Pakistani people are very thankful for what the US did. But i am talking about the civil aid that is handed out to Pakistan Government, it has done far more damage than help. And please dont talk about how much the US has done for Pakistan, because Pakistan has done more than that for the US. Throughout the Cold War Pakistan was allied with the US and acted in the interests of US, have you forgotten Krushchev threatening to nuke Pakistan for basing U2 Airplanes while the US refused to provide nuclear umbrella to Pakistan. Pakistan was the American bullet that lead to the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan, as soon as American interests were served in Afghanistan, the US shows its appreciation by sanctioning Pakistan. Millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan bringing all sorts of crimes with them and Pakistan is left alone to deal with it, THANKS A LOT.

A dam shame when something is asked in return huh? Especially something that deals with such subjects and requires balls against those you fear.

We have done more than our share in this WOT, we have captured majority of the high ranking leaders of AQ and Taliban. We have conducted operations in FATA that has broken the backs of the TTP. While we conducted our operations in FATA, TTP ran over to the Afghan border and regrouped there. Now they cross over from Kunar and harass our forces on a regular basis. So please, we have done more than our share for this WOT. It has brought us nothing but misery

[Dreadnought]

I would love to know who those millions of people are considering the fact that Pakistan has suffered far more in damages to its economy as compared to the aid it has received.

Try looking at the piss poor there that dont see the aid since the military has been spending it for quite some time now. These are the people that are missing out on exactly what that aid was supposed to pay for.

*Might be because many countries already know she allows terrororists to both train and exist on her "Soverign soil" which seems to be "Soverign" to everbody but terrorist factions. Go figure. Shame she still hasnt figured that out yet. Bet your military has though, especailly after the last few days. Just think what would happen if she didnt recieve that aid genius.

The aid that was provided for earthquake and flood was humanitarian and Pakistani people are very thankful for what the US did. But i am talking about the civil aid that is handed out to Pakistan Government, it has done far more damage than help. And please dont talk about how much the US has done for Pakistan, because Pakistan has done more than that for the US. Throughout the Cold War Pakistan was allied with the US and acted in the interests of US, have you forgotten Krushchev threatening to nuke Pakistan for basing U2 Airplanes while the US refused to provide nuclear umbrella to Pakistan. Pakistan was the American bullet that lead to the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan, as soon as American interests were served in Afghanistan, the US shows its appreciation by sanctioning Pakistan. Millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan bringing all sorts of crimes with them and Pakistan is left alone to deal with it, THANKS A LOT.

You really are short sighted and blind arent you?

Why was Pakistan sanctioned? Do you really know? Please do explain....... And umm no, Pakistan was no bullet of that you can be sure.

We have done more than our share in this WOT, we have captured majority of the high ranking leaders of AQ and Taliban. We have conducted operations in FATA that has broken the backs of the TTP. While we conducted our operations in FATA, TTP ran over to the Afghan border and regrouped there. Now they cross over from Kunar and harass our forces on a regular basis. So please, we have done more than our share for this WOT. It has brought us nothing but misery.

*Back to the point of you allowing terrorists to breed and train on your "Soverign" soil. Reap what you sow.

When you sleep with dogs long enough its not long before you carry their fleas.

You do realize exactly why India is developing a Blue Water fleet including the carriers right?

I would learn that word "incursion" and learn it well for the future. Its a pretty good bet its going to happen more times then you think over the above discussed topics.

And umm, were you listing Michigan in your ID a few hours ago were'nt you? Funny thing that is.

[AdvanXer]

Is this the same unit that the liberal loons dubbed "Dick Cheney death squad?"

Dick Cheney Had a Death Squad | Democrats.com

Gawker — Today's gossip is tomorrow's news

I guess it's the Obama Death Squad now.

[cirrrocco]

I would love to know who those millions of people are considering the fact that Pakistan has suffered far more in damages to its economy as compared to the aid it has received.

.....

Wow Rich Pakistanis having a good life in western nations, asking westerners not to send aid. if you cannot succeed in terminating the terrorist infestation in your country , let some one else do it. You keep telling that you have suffered enough. so let other countries help you in ridding your country of this vermin, starting with the scotch whisky sipping military guys.

or maybe that is not feasible coz you are connected to the military yourself and getting fat off the western aid, that Pakistan's generals so happily pilfer.

if the mansion was called 'waziristani mansion' [called by residents living nearby, so they knew where the people were from] and you have your army undertaking military operations in waziristan and killing people, how is it that your army does not ensure that some crzy fundoo is not planning on killing hundreds of officer material at the academy from the house. This someone who has named the mansion 'waziristan mansion' , builds walls with reinforced metal and a building resembling a keep right next to the academy. Werent officers, miltary personel curious and wanted to ensure that a terrorist operation from the mansion was not conducted into the academy. This is what is most incredelous.

so answer the above. lets see what type of spin you put in there

[troung]

The aid that was provided for earthquake and flood was humanitarian and Pakistani people are very thankful for what the US did. But i am talking about the civil aid that is handed out to Pakistan Government, it has done far more damage than help. And please dont talk about how much the US has done for Pakistan, because Pakistan has done more than that for the US. Throughout the Cold War Pakistan was allied with the US and acted in the interests of US, have you forgotten Krushchev threatening to nuke Pakistan for basing U2 Airplanes while the US refused to provide nuclear umbrella to Pakistan. Pakistan was the American bullet that lead to the defeat of the USSR in Afghanistan, as soon as American interests were served in Afghanistan, the US shows its appreciation by sanctioning Pakistan. Millions of Afghan refugees in Pakistan bringing all sorts of crimes with them and Pakistan is left alone to deal with it, THANKS A LOT.

America walked away because after Kabul fell Pakistani backed thugs began to shell civilians in Kabul. Pakistan was trying to put a proxy (Hekmayter) in power and fired rockets into civilians areas, that made us leave.

We have done more than our share in this WOT, we have captured majority of the high ranking leaders of AQ and Taliban. We have conducted operations in FATA that has broken the backs of the TTP. While we conducted our operations in FATA, TTP ran over to the Afghan border and regrouped there. Now they cross over from Kunar and harass our forces on a regular basis. So please, we have done more than our share for this WOT. It has brought us nothing but misery.

Pakistan gives aid and comfort to the Taliban. This shit only started because of Pakistani proxies and if Pakistan had done what the internet brigades (who live in the west of course) had wanted we would have rightfully turned that basket case nation to glass after 9-11.

I beg off you, please take this aid away from us. Instead of helping us it is literally crippling us, this WOT has brought us nothing but misery. Its a good time that Pakistan should start planning its exit strategy, $60 billion in damages and 30 000 people dead for a war that was never ours to begin with.

Does that include the flood aid?

===========

Wow Rich Pakistanis having a good life in western nations, asking westerners not to send aid.

I doubt they will return home for good....

[Kasmir]

More information on the stealth helicopters used...if the Pakistanis were informed as some here claim,they went to some extraordinary lengths to get radar evading helos involved for no reason.

Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

I would think there would be *zero* chance those helis were the only US aircraft in the area. Even without using F-22's, it's less than 200 klicks to the Afghan border. Once the op began in Abbotabad and the US finally told the PA we were taking out Bin Laden, fighters could be overhead before the local PA got their pants on.

[n21]

Is there any proof to support that or are you just pulling that out of your a**. Why in the world would Pakistani military officers harbour OBL? There is simply no reason for them to do so. OBL is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Pakistanis and most notable soldiers. Why would PA officers harbour a man who has killed their brothers and sisters.

Why? Simple. He was the golden goose which laid "golden American aid egg".

Specially when the aid was going directly to build up PA's capabilities against India. Find out what your own ex-president Musharraf said about the aid.

Regarding OBl killing Pakistani citizens. It is such a lame excuse. You are talking about a army, which was responsible for the biggest genocide after the holocaust in 71. They were after all your own "brothers and sisters" No?

Should I also remind about the Gilgit Shias, Baluch etc? OBL's "murdering of Pakistani brothers and sister" comes no where close to what PA has done to it's own citizen.

Now the argument regarding TTP. It is easy for Pakistan to claim that it has been attacked by Taliban. Fact is the attacks are by Mehsud tribes and it started with Lal Masjid, because lot of people killed in that ops belong to the region. And it is also a fact that Mehsud agreed to join PA, when there was a fear India would attack for Mumbai attacks. And if India does attack, TTP will join PA against India. So it is pure hogwash that "Taliban" is against Pakistan.

I have no doubt that PA won't even blink to harbor anyone if it is profitable.

[Wayfarer]

Senior military officials confirmed that Pakistan army troops were providing backup support when the United States began its operations inside the compound. And residents in the area said that two hours before the operation was launched, Pakistani army personnel ordered them to switch off their lights inside and outside their homes and remain indoors until further orders.

“The army personnel cordoned off the entire area long before we heard the sounds of helicopters hovering over the area,” said Zulfikar Ahmed, who lives in the town of Bilal, where bin Laden’s compound is located.

A senior Pakistani intelligence official told GlobalPost that intelligence officers in Pakistan and the United States had, in fact, shared information about bin Laden’s presence a week before U.S. President Barack Obama approved the operation.

“Gen. David Petraeus had paid an extraordinary visit to Islamabad on April 25, and held a one-on-one meeting with Gen. Kayani [Pakistani army chief], in which they discussed the details of the operation,” the official said.

Osama bin Laden | Pakistan

Some White Knuckle Moments for Elite Navy SEALs Team - Political Punch

Another white-knuckle moment – at the end of the operation, Pakistan’s military scrambled fighter jets looking for the US helicopters. Who knows what could have happened if the Pakistani planes had reached the US helicopters -- but they didn’t.

Why scramble jets for an operation that you knew was there... OH WAIT, Pakistani military is playing classic reverse psychology mind games to get some favor points with their own citizens.. yes..

[Bhaarat]

Should I also remind about the Gilgit Shias, Baluch etc? OBL's "murdering of Pakistani brothers and sister" comes no where close to what PA has done to it's own citizen.

OBL's crimes and PA are not different in that context.
It was Gen. Musharraf who bought OBL along side to crush the Shia uprising in Gilgit. OBL and AQ's hatred towards Shia's is not unknown.


Regards

[Officer of Engineers]

Stick to the topic at hand. There will be no mention of Bangladesh. And stay off the personal attack. This is the last warning.

[calass]

It appears that they didn't have the idea where OBL was living, good job on OBL's part that he did a very good job of staying under the radar. The notion of Pakistan's security forces sheltering OBL is absurd at best, what possibly can Pakistan gain by sheltering the world's most wanted man. Whatever sympathies that lower level soldiers or mid level officers had for the Taliban or AQ was all gone when they started attacking Army Check Posts, Suicide Bomb Blasts at GHQ, ISI's Headquarters and most notably the beheadings of our soldiers. After that PA was out for blood, the operation in Swat should be evidence enough that PA showed no quarter to these scums. Thus, this argument is extremely idiotic that OBL was being sheltered by ISI, it just makes me laugh how people reach this conclusion.

The same possible reason why Paksitan hides Mullah Omer, Haqqani Network, LeT etc.

Now..tell me that they are NOT in Pakistan..lol

[Double Edge]

I thought this was a good article from a conservative source. It is known that elements within the Pakistan military , intelligence have been supporting terrorists in the past. However as this article points out; these elements do not represent all Pakistanis, and probably do not represent the civilian establishment. I dont think I can say the same for the military establishment though.

Eunomia » Jumping To Conclusions

It is a bit remarkable that an allied government that has come through for the U.S. numerous times in apprehending Al Qaeda members is being treated in many quarters as obviously guilty of complicity in sheltering one of the most prominent Al Qaeda members. This is especially odd given that Pakistan reportedly shared information about the courier that led the U.S. to locate the compound where bin Laden was residing. If there were an active effort by the Pakistani government and/or military to shelter bin Laden or to turn a blind eye to his location, does it make sense that they would provide the U.S. information about this? Wouldn’t they withhold that information and try to direct U.S. attention elsewhere? I don’t say all of this out of any enthusiasm for Pakistan, if that makes any difference, but because the accusation doesn’t make very much sense.

That bolded bit needs to be clarified further. They passed on the tip that got him nabbed without which he would still be alive.

The basic question is whether leadership knew whether he was in Pakistan. Mushraaf in his interview yesterday said he always maintained that he did not know and when pressed conjectured he might be at the border or Bajaur and ultimately to say not in pakistan at all.

I think they did know, not the exact location, at most down to a town.