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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post

    Not to mention that he keeps using "Strategy" when he really means tactics.
    Well some of the discussion like coming up from the Philippines to go after Japanese shipping between Japan and Asia is strategy.

    I know if the roles are reversed and I have command of the IJN fleet, I would suspect a southern approach. The only way for the US to force Japan out of Manchuria is to cut the Japan-Korea sea link.

    The Japanese speed, close range advantage and inability to take what they can dish out presents a whole different set of problems. Scouting is going is going to be critical.

    If the IJN commander can get both his BB divisions ganged up on just one US division.....

    If the Americans are coming straight in from Pearl, the low bunkers give me a serious edge since the Americans wont try to build up full speed until the last possible minute to save fuel. This makes the chance of racing the 3 hours to the enemy fleet and engaging it piecemeal before the elements close a much more likely outcome.

    If they come out of the south and have full bunkers they have the edge on linking up. Only a fool would stay divided against a faster force they can't force to fight.

    I would probably come at the Americans line in a double line abreast with my faster ships in the rear. 1 they are newer and more valuable and 2 they can rapidly close and form a single battle line. Using two lines abreast also lets me plot evasive maneuvers as I close with less risk of collision. I am also coming at them at the faster possible sustainable speed minus 1 knot.
    1. it keeps my force together 2. if the Americans assume I am going the fastest they I throw their plots off for at least 1 salvo.

    I am also probably going to lead with some destroyers that are fast enough to zip around laying smoke so that the only splash spotting is via air, and possibly getting in a torpedo shot.

    The Americans have an 8.5 miles gunnery advantage until it reverses and favors me. The Americans have two options- form a battle line as I race in and try and pick me off at range or turn it into a tail chase sacrificing firepower
    in order to keep the range extended longer.

    Luckily I think I can get them to telegraph their intent by watchign the US destroyers, if they interpose between the battle lines I am going to assume they mean to stand and fight and are setting up an anti-torpedo screen.

    Also once the range is in my brackets I want to take a slightly off center course opposite the US line of travel. This will hopefully let me slide around the end of the US battle line and cross the T.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
      I think the lesson for our young Clytisimo is that is that this isn't as easy as some computer or PS-3 sim.

      ...snip...
      How about Harpoon? Though I doubt few of the younger generation would have played it.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Chogy View Post
        Cly, have you now seen the depths and detail such analyses go to? ;) Let me know if you want an air war scenario, I'll post a simple one that will be more along the tasking of a flight commander rather than a mission commander level.
        Can I request one ?
        "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

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        • #49
          o.O Yeesh! I leave to do school for about 2 weeks and this thread gets popping! Anyway, I think I'm a little too inexpierenced to try anymore scenarios. v.v; But I do appreciate the attention y'all had; it makes me feel glad to know some people actually care about what I say.

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          • #50
            Sure, Wayfarer, what's your poison? What kind of scenario would you like?
            Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

            Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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            • #51
              Anything involved mechanized forces, like the Israeli response to the breaching of the Bar Lev line (thanks to Albany Rifles for pointing out the instance in another thread) but at the same time anything simple and in the domain of anything a battalion or smaller.

              Best to start easy, seeing the scope and scale of the scenario USS Wisconsin mentioned made my balls shrivel with the amount of research required (school student in last years before university)

              Cheers, Wayfarer
              "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

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              • #52
                Let's look at the same war, but a different front: Syria is invading Israel on the Golan Heights. Your goal is to repel the Syrians. Good Luck
                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Let's look at the same war, but a different front: Syria is invading Israel on the Golan Heights. Your goal is to repel the Syrians. Good Luck
                  Give me till monday good sir
                  "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

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                  • #54
                    This thread is a great read. I hope more scenarios will be done here :)
                    "Football is war."

                    -Rinus Michels

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                      Let's look at the same war, but a different front: Syria is invading Israel on the Golan Heights. Your goal is to repel the Syrians. Good Luck
                      Any resources info?

                      Otherwise I'd stick to 1-2 tomahawk per Syrian brigade then low flights with IAF and then the tanks on the road to Damascus :Dancing-Banana:

                      Yes I know I had just to repel them, but this will prevent other attacks in the future ;)
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Wayfarer View Post
                        Give me till monday good sir
                        A couple things to get you started:

                        Israel was attacked on Yom Kippur (start date of this scenario), and the entire country is shut down. You need to call up your reserves in order to supplement the forces in the Golan and in Sinai.

                        Israel is highly outnumbered (you can check online for exact numbers, but I seem to remember them being outnumbered something like 11:1 in artillery and a similar number in armor)

                        The IAF doesn't have experience combating the new SA-6 that Syria has.

                        The IDF as a general rule has better training, but better training only holds out so far when faced with extremely superior numbers.

                        Final thing is the fact that if Syria can take the Golan Heights, they win the war and can sweep into the rest of Israel with very little resistance.
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
                          A couple things to get you started:

                          Israel was attacked on Yom Kippur (start date of this scenario), and the entire country is shut down. You need to call up your reserves in order to supplement the forces in the Golan and in Sinai.

                          Israel is highly outnumbered (you can check online for exact numbers, but I seem to remember them being outnumbered something like 11:1 in artillery and a similar number in armor)

                          The IAF doesn't have experience combating the new SA-6 that Syria has.

                          The IDF as a general rule has better training, but better training only holds out so far when faced with extremely superior numbers.

                          Final thing is the fact that if Syria can take the Golan Heights, they win the war and can sweep into the rest of Israel with very little resistance.
                          This sounds very interesting, I am excited by this - I used to do a lot of armor wargaming, back in the 80's and 90's- though it was predominantly WWII.

                          Will you be providing a table of forces involved and their locations at the start of the engagement?
                          sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                          If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                          • #58
                            Also IDF centurions have much better elevation n depression than the newer Syrian 55 n 62 tanks. The IDF is also 105mm HEP rounds which are more effective than the Soviet supplied 100 n 115mm HEAT n APDS. The cents als have better armor at likely engagement ranges and have longer gunnery ranges. The Syrians have a3-4 to 1 advantage in tanks and 6 to 1 in artillery n infantry. The Syrians want to take the Golan within 16 hours to beat the 20 hours they think the IDF needs to mobalize. Contrary to post war myths the Syrians are agressive and brave, 2hey expended hundreds of tanks and thousands of lives. They are not Saddam's Iragi Army but closer to the Republican guard in motivation.

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                            • #59
                              One thing I forgot to mention before: Syrian tanks have NVG and Infrared sights, IDF has no night fighting capability

                              Best and most accurate image I could find, gives you locations of both Syrian and Israeli armor, plus Syrian airborne assault.



                              Pre-war forces:

                              Prior to the war, the Golan front had been reinforced by Brigade 7. Together with Brigade 188, the forces there amounted to 177 tanks. Additional forces included two infantry battalions and 11 artillery batteries. These troops faced a Syrian force comprised of more than 600 tanks and 80 artillery batteries.

                              According to Wikipedia:

                              At the onset of the battle, the Israeli brigades of some 3,000 troops, 180 tanks and 60 artillery pieces faced off against three infantry divisions with large armour components comprising 28,000 Syrian troops, 800 tanks and 600 artillery pieces. In addition, the Syrians deployed two armoured divisions from the second day onwards. By the third day Israel has two complete divisions and parts of a third



                              Most accurate TOE and OOB I've managed to find:

                              ISRAELI ARMY OOB, YOM KIPPUR WAR, OCTOBER 1973

                              Northern Command, General Hofi
                              36th Mechanised Ugda, General Eitan.

                              188th "Barak" Armoured Brigade: 74th Tank Battalion, Lt. Col. Yari Notshi (33 Centurions); 53rd Tank Battalion (32 Centurions); ? Mech Infantry Battalion.
                              7th Armoured Brigade: 77th Tank Battalion, Col. Kahalaric (33 Centurions); 82nd Tank Battalion (33 Centurions); 75th Armoured Infantry Battalion; Armoured School Tank Battalion (Centurion).
                              1st "Golani" Infantry Brigade.
                              31st Airborne Brigade.
                              146th Armoured Ugda, General Peled.

                              9th Armoured Brigade.
                              19th Armoured Brigade (Super Sherman).
                              20th Armoured Brigade.
                              70th Armoured Brigade.
                              240th Armoured Ugda, General Laner.

                              679th Reserve Armoured Brigade, Col Uri Orr (Centurion).
                              19th Armoured Brigade (ex 146th Ugda).
                              20th Armoured Brigade (ex 146th Ugda).
                              79th Armoured Brigade.
                              17th Armoured Brigade, Col. Sarig.
                              14th Infantry Brigade.

                              ================================================== =====================================
                              5th Infantry Division: Brig. General Ali Aslan
                              112th Infantry Brigade
                              61st Infantry Brigade
                              132nd Mechanised Brigade
                              47th Independent Tank Brigade
                              50th Artillery Brigade
                              7th Infantry Division: Brig. General Omar Abrash
                              68th Infantry Brigade
                              85th Infantry Brigade
                              121st Mechanised Brigade
                              78th Independent Tank Brigade
                              70th Artillery Brigade
                              Moroccan Brigade (30 T-55) (attached)


                              9th Infantry Division: Col. Hassan Tourkmani
                              52nd Infantry Brigade
                              33rd Infantry Brigade
                              43rd Mechanised Brigade
                              51st Tank Brigade (T-55)
                              89th Artillery Brigade

                              1st Armoured Division: Col. Tewfig Jehani
                              91st Tank Brigade (T-62)
                              4th Tank Brigade (T-55)
                              2nd Mechanised Brigade (40 T-55)
                              64th Artillery Brigade (54 guns including 18 T34/122mm SP Guns)

                              3rd Armoured Division: Brig. General Mustapha Sharba
                              20th Tank Brigade (T-55)
                              65th Tank Brigade (T-55)
                              15th Mechanised Brigade
                              13th Artillery Brigade
                              81st Tank Brigade (T-62) (attached)

                              Independent Brigades:
                              Assad Republican Guard (T-62 & BMP)

                              Army Level Assets:
                              Artillery Brigade (36 180mm guns)
                              69th Rocket Artillery Brigade (FROG-7)

                              General Headquarters Forces: Maj General Yousef Chakour
                              70th Tank Brigade
                              141st Tank Brigade
                              81st Tank Brigade (T-62) (attached to 3rd Armoured Division)
                              62nd Mechanised Brigade
                              30th Infantry Brigade
                              90th Infantry Brigade
                              1st Commando Group
                              82nd Parachute Regiment
                              Additional Artillery Brigades

                              Expeditionary forces include:

                              Syrian Front
                              Primary land elements included:
                              3rd Iraqi Armoured Division:
                              6th Armoured Brigade (130 Tanks)
                              ? Armoured Brigade (130 Tanks)
                              8th Mechanised Brigade (50 Tanks)

                              Iraqi Infantry Division:
                              Unknown organisation

                              Jordanian Contingent:
                              40th Jordanian Armoured Brigade (Centurion; M113)
                              Additional Armoured Brigade
                              Moroccan Expeditionary Force:

                              1 x Armoured Regiment
                              Saudi Arabia:

                              1 x Infantry Brigade (Jordanian Defensive Front)
                              Last edited by bigross86; 05 May 11,, 17:58.
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                It will be interesting to see a scenario where some old WWII German tanks fight with early coldwar tanks - I saw picture of a knocked out Pzkw IV on the Golan Heights from this period, and it seemed to suggest some interesting wargames.
                                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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