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  • #61
    If remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) Thailand uses the US made Stingray Light tanks armed with the widely used US licensed British Royal ordnace L7 105mm gun. And the performance of the tank is quite good considering Thailand uses it more as a light-medium tank because of the gun it's using, and the fact the tank top speed is 70km/h is perfect for reconessance and gives of a huge bite if it is spotted by the enemy.

    Info on Stingray light tank Stingray light tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Can you please pass da pork and flate?

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    • #62
      The Thai Army is using them. Marine Corps more recently ordered Ascod LT105s with a Denel GT7 low-recoil gun instead of getting further Stingrays or Stingray IIs.

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      • #63
        You can't effectively hold ground without tanks. Conversely, there are times where everything else fails, and tanks are the only thing that allow you to fulfill your mission of holding ground. A tank can take more damage than an infantry soldier, can stay in the AO longer than a chopper, and (correct me if I'm wrong) can react quicker to an oncoming barfight brawl than artillery.[/QUOTE]

        Tanks cannot 'Hold Ground', they assist the Infantry in 'Taking Ground' but cannot 'Hold It'. Once ground is taken they 'Move Off' the Objective and await orders for their next mission. A whole array of assets are used to take ground, only 'Infantry' can hold it.

        MBTs' can also be used in a 'Recce Role' if required; as a Regiment we used a Squadron to undertake this role, purely experimental, but it was affective.

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        • #64
          P.S. You can't open a bottle of beer with a tank, can you?

          In fact Doktor you are very wrong with that response, I remember back in my days we had several places on a Cheiftain, Challenger or Challenger 2 there were plenty of places to open said 'Beer Bottle', Eyes on the skirting plates was always a favourite.

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          • #65
            I concur with Kernow, in that the standard MBT sqn could do the job of a recce sqn.Any way how far ahead would the recce elements be operating?I assume that these elements will be tasked to establish contact and give a firm base for subsequent maneuvers.So I feel that the leading sqns can do this as well if not better than light armour who will have to stay away to avoid cas.Yes, light tanks will be a boon in marshy terrain or in the mountains.

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            • #66
              Gentlemen,

              The modern recce has to do more with battle management than making contact with the enemy, of which the latter is most certainly better done by a MBT sqn than an arm'd recce sqn. The former, however, is better done by vehicles with electrionic eyes, ears, and voice over the standard MBT. Corollary, they also perform the engr recce role as well which means terrain and obstacles ill suited for such a heavy vehicle.

              A light tank is not it but most certainly, a LAV stuffed with eyes, ears, and battle management systems is more fit for this job.

              And welcome back, Colonel.
              Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 18 Jul 11,, 09:17.

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              • #67
                Thank you for remembering!Back home for good unless the wife throws me out again ,as I am sure many of us face this predicament..We pine in seperation but long to be seperated at times!I envy you for the scotch you sip considering the rot gut I get in the local PX.

                Yes. the LAV is an answer-the yanks have been flaunting the Stryker to the Indians in the joint trg exs who have fallen for the Javelin!

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by tanker_jitty View Post
                  Thank you for remembering!Back home for good unless the wife throws me out again ,as I am sure many of us face this predicament..We pine in seperation but long to be seperated at times!I envy you for the scotch you sip considering the rot gut I get in the local PX.
                  The doctor has dramatically reduced my intake. I think he hates me.

                  Originally posted by tanker_jitty View Post
                  Yes. the LAV is an answer-the yanks have been flaunting the Stryker to the Indians in the joint trg exs who have fallen for the Javelin!
                  Truth be told, Colonel, the reason why we used LAVs or even modified SUVs in arm'd recce is that they're cheaper than tanks. During the Iraq War, 80% of the ground combat was meeting engagements which throws the whole idea of recce out the window.

                  In fact, the deepest penetration was done by a battalion of tanks, 3rd Squadron, 7th Calvary. Which was a blessing, considering that 3-7Cav at one point was surrounded by the Iraqi Medina Division.

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                  • #69
                    The Brits still use Schimitar (CVR(T)) with great affect, fantastic little vehicle, quiet, small and very light, it operate up to 15Kms ahead of an Armoured Battle Group or smaller formation. CVR(T) is not a light tank, but 'Combat Vehicle Reconnaisance (Tracked).:wors:

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                    • #70
                      As the South asian armies organisations are based on the British model,I always felt that the Recce tp should be based on something like the Scimitar instead of 4wds.The BMP is a good option.Hardy, nothing fancy but with a TI,Atgm with 3km+range and the 30mm cannon it will suffice both in offensive and defensive tasks.Communications of course up to the Div Hqs.

                      I wonder have we seen the last of the Corps adv with the Armd div going Tally Ho for objectives in depth.I dont see one happening in the Indian subcontinent.So do we require light tanks in the plains? Waste of money if you ask me.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by tanker_jitty View Post
                        As the South asian armies organisations are based on the British model,I always felt that the Recce tp should be based on something like the Scimitar instead of 4wds.
                        Colonel,

                        Thus far, I have not found an South Asian Officer willing to discuss the intimate details for me to judge just how close or how far ABCA (American/British/Canadian/Australian) armies have we departed from our WWII British Indian Army cousins. Our standard formation right now is the Battle Group which has been only a recent development within the Indian Army.

                        I realize and accept that your oaths forbid you to discuss things in detail but without an open source reference, I cannot really tell you just how different or the same the Indian Army is from the ABCA armies.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by tanker_jitty View Post
                          As the South asian armies organisations are based on the British model,I always felt that the Recce tp should be based on something like the Scimitar instead of 4wds.The BMP is a good option.Hardy, nothing fancy but with a TI,Atgm with 3km+range and the 30mm cannon it will suffice both in offensive and defensive tasks.Communications of course up to the Div Hqs.

                          I wonder have we seen the last of the Corps adv with the Armd div going Tally Ho for objectives in depth.I dont see one happening in the Indian subcontinent.So do we require light tanks in the plains? Waste of money if you ask me.
                          I thought the Indian Army did use BMPs'!!

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            Colonel,

                            Thus far, I have not found an South Asian Officer willing to discuss the intimate details for me to judge just how close or how far ABCA (American/British/Canadian/Australian) armies have we departed from our WWII British Indian Army cousins. Our standard formation right now is the Battle Group which has been only a recent development within the Indian Army.

                            I realize and accept that your oaths forbid you to discuss things in detail but without an open source reference, I cannot really tell you just how different or the same the Indian Army is from the ABCA armies.
                            I would like to go to war in a BMP; what with the fuel tanks in the rear doors. Also the BMP is an IFV I believe!!!!

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                            • #74
                              unfortunately, over the years the the element of distrust has been sown between the the indian and the western armed forces specially with the indian tilt towards the ussr.The west was under the impression that the indians are all brainwashed to be kgb agents and we indians doubting the wests intentions when it came to Pakistan.The last decade has seen a sea change with the west now cozing up with india and a healthier inter action with many western countries queing up for exchange programmes the latest being the GERMANS.Unfortunately the canadians have disappeared from the radar for what I feel was a hurried decision after the Bomb.By the way our trg phamplets are just Restricted in classification and some of the our military journals are available on the net.Among the lot mentioned by you the Aussies have been nudged by the Americans to get closer with India as they were seen as pro Pakistan.I came across an article on the experinces os a Australian pilot flying a SU 30 in Pune.

                              I wou/ld also attribute our beating about the bush syndrome to the intense intellegence and counter intellengence envirnoment prevalent on both sides of the border.Trust me you can still see those ww2 type of posters warning you that walls have ears.Loose lips sinks ships etc etc.You would be surprised at number of armed forces personnel who have been trapped thru friendly chatty agents.So forgive us for being vague in our discussions and though i am now a civilian it will take time to rub off the dont talk to strangers syndrome.Let me close this ramble with a staff college story-The usual exicetment of landing up at the staff college ,meeting course mates making new friends specially with numerous foriegn officers and their fanilies.Became close friends with a Brit and his wife who took to Indian rum and curry. Spend many weekends jawing away on our armies specially his experinces in N.Ireland.One such evenings the lady suddenly asked my wife if she gets debriefed on Mondays![not that my wife understood what she meant]

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                              • #75
                                Colonel,

                                What is the TOE (Table of Organization and Equipment) for the recce trp? What 4wds are they issued with? Our infantry battalions are getting 4wds instead of LAVs and the only thing that I can see is it's that up arm'd 4wds are cheaper than LAVs.

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