Small arms in Australia. Recommendations?

[Chunder]

The cheapest I could find online and in stores ranged from 700 to 2000. Guns aren't as cheap in Australia as in America

Thanks. A stupid question, but caliber refers to the size of the round right? So when someone says .22 or .50 caliber they are referring to the diameter of the bullet? Within the .22 rifle range, what specifics should I be looking for in particular? I have time before I buy, so does anyone suggest reading a book on rifles or firearms? I've done some basic firearms training like stripping and cleaning a Steyr and I have fired a Steyr a few times but that is about it.

In SA when you do your course, the SSAA did have some involvement, and as part of that course you get a book called 'A guide to hunting and shooting in Australia'. It's a good, sensible book - coveres everything you need to know. I'd imagine the same book would be doled out elsewhere as well.

When buying a .22 Look for stocks with a floating barrel Get the salesman to tell you & show you about that if unclear. I.E a thin piece of paper should be able to fit between the barrel and the stock. Don't get a lever action repeater. Get a 5 Round mag which should come with a CZ. Don't get caught up in salesmen telling you one brand or another has a trigger mechanism which is easier to dissassemble. Any mechanism of a new .22 should be able to put several thousand rounds through it before you get the compunction to expanden your horizons and clean it. Get the right scope - you will be shooting for lighter game at best 75 yards, more likely 30-50 if you get real good with your habits. Yes you can shoot farther, but I don't recommend it, to many variables for that callibre. Get a Gun bag as well make sure you get the gun bag after you get the scope, you want the gun with the scope mounted to fit in the bag. Many bags are still made for iron sights (lower profile).

There are other naunces a salesman might tell you I.E the bolt when being extracted from the mechanism, might be fould by the woodwork of the butt - it's a cosmetic thing, doesn't impact on the operation. Or the convenience of the safety. Disregard that. Treat the safety like it's broken. It's only there to catch you out. The only time I ever use it is when a round is chambered, im prone in sand, the target has passed and another target presents itself in another dirction.

Re - your question about rounds, the nomenclature some of the more avid shooters (guys with more than just 2 calibre's) would be able to tell you about there are a few guys around that are well - flat out hardcore on understanding of the properties of different calibres. Cartridge cases are clearly marked, never use rounds that you are unsure of.

CZ's, also referred to as BRNO's have a very good rep in Australia. They have manufacturing plants both in Europe & USA. The factory customer service is responsive as well.

Highseas recommendation of a Remingotn 700 .30-06 is also a really sensible choice once one has a solid appreciation for shooting with a small calibre. The .22 will eventually just sit there in the cabinet.

[USSWisconsin]

Jesus Christ! $2000 for a rifle?

Get a Remington 700 in .30-06. You can get 55 gr. .22 sabot rounds for varmints and 220 gr. round nose for whatever your biggest wombat happens to be. And everything in between. It's the one caliber that does practically everything.

If I had to live with only one rifle, that's the one it would be.

For an experienced shooter I would agree, but for someone who needs to get started shooting, this would cost a lot for ammo, and be a little too powerful to get started with. But you wouldn't get caught out in the bush with too little gun... I doubt there is any medium game in Australia that a 30-06 couldn't handle with ease.

[highsea]

My first rifle was an -06 at 12 yrs old. It taught me a healthy respect for firearms. I was buying surplus ammo in a can, so it was cheap to shoot. That's probably not an option for wayfarer.

My problem with plinking guns as first guns is that they are too much like toys. A rifle that whacks the hell out of your shoulder reminds you that it's something to take seriously.

30-06 can be loaded for anything, the the variety of available factory ammo makes it the caliber that does everything pretty well.

The only problem with owning one is it's hard to find an excuse to buy something else...;)

[gunnut]

Thanks. A stupid question, but caliber refers to the size of the round right? So when someone says .22 or .50 caliber they are referring to the diameter of the bullet? Within the .22 rifle range, what specifics should I be looking for in particular? I have time before I buy, so does anyone suggest reading a book on rifles or firearms? I've done some basic firearms training like stripping and cleaning a Steyr and I have fired a Steyr a few times but that is about it.

The number does refer to the "caliber" of the weapon, as Mihais pointed out. But only in general. There are minute differences between the actual diameter of bullets fired from weapons of the same "caliber."

For example, a 9mm Parabellum (9x19mm) is 0.356" in diameter. You would figure a 9mm Makarov (9x18mm) would be the same. But no. 9mm Makarov is 0.361" wide. Soviets wanted this round to be bigger than the 9mm Corto/Kurz/short/Browning (9x17mm) that is prevalent in Europe so in case of a war, Soviet forces could use captured European ammo but not the other way around. The 2nd number (19mm; 18mm; 17mm) refers to the length of the case.

Also, it's important to know the entire name of the round. A 22 bullet is 22 caliber, but there are many different types of rounds in that range. There's the 22 LR, the most produced type of ammo in human history, 22-250, 223 Remington (commercial load for the 5.56mm NATO), 22 Hornet...etc. The list goes on and on. The differences are the shape of the case and the shape of the bullet.

You can use Wikipedia to learn about the different types of ammunition you might find in Australia. Just find a rifle, look up the name of the caliber, and type it into Wikipedia to see what turns up.

[Mihais]

True.To really confuse Wayfarer there are subtle differences between seemingly similar projectiles,like .223 vs. 5.56x45 or .308 Win vs 7.62x51NATO. 223 is ok in a 5.56 x 45 chambered rifle,but the reverse is not recommended(although possible.The 7.62 x51 works well in a 308 rifle,but it's not always possible to use a 308 in a 7.62 chambered rifle.
The 8x57IS is the same as 7.92 x57IS,but hell knows people get confused by it.

Geez,I could almost get confused myself.Things really start getting confusing when you go into finer details,like differences between brass,loads,bullet weight etc... They remain that way until you learn them,but that never stops since each year there are new developments and experiments.Fascinating stuff.
That's not even getting into weapon manipulation techniques,nor into tactics.There things are getting really interesting.

[highsea]

^^^ See what I mean?

Just get the ought-six. All that monkey business of what bullet fits what barrel goes away. ;)

[USSWisconsin]

Highland 30-06 150gr SP Factory Ammo $27.95/20

http://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/in...id=15&Itemid=2

Winchester Bushman .22LR Ammo $55.00/500
http://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/in...id=16&Itemid=2

The cost of ammo would almost pay for both guns if you consider it takes 500-1000 rounds to get good at shooting. I'd want both if I was hunting in Australia or here if I wanted to hunt bigger game.

[highsea]

$55 for a brick of .22's

Just out of curiosity- how much did you aussies pay for guns and ammo in the days before you voted to not trust yourselves to own such things?

[cadpipe]

The only problem with owning one is it's hard to find an excuse to buy something else...;)

That's just crazy talk! :Dancing-Banana:

[Chunder]

$55 for a brick of .22's

Actually that price hasn't changed much in 8 years - by about 5 bucks..

Just out of curiosity- how much did you aussies pay for guns and ammo in the days before you voted to not trust yourselves to own such things?

Cheaper. But our dollar was shit compared to yours so it still cost a bit. I'm left scratching my head as to why no reduction now our rate hasn't improved.

I didn't vote not to trust myself. The only reason that law went through was because a mental case went bonkers with a gun in Port Arthur, and John Howard got it through on a wave of national sentiment. There wasn't a vote. I never thought the day would come I'd have to call the majority of Australians flat out incredibly stupid to allow such pervasion of passion over reason to guide law making. I don't really see a need for automatic weapons - although that isn't the point now is it. If they were THAT worried about it they could have easily gone for a police clearance check. But no. This was much more political than sensible - dastardly, corrupt, and a blight on those that can't see the fallacy of making policy on the run.

After all, it's easy to say you've banned Auto's, absolving you of complete political responsibility whenever something does happen - because you've banned them. Never mind the issue of organised crime importing the things. The government is far more pre-occupied with slapping criminal records on people (the way the act is written) to people that don't have their gun cabinets dynabolted to their rentals - as opposed to chained inside a fridge in the shed - and leaving it up to the DPP on an outcome.

[highsea]

I think the last brick of .22LR I bought was $8.99 at Big 5 Sporting goods.

When I was a kid I used to buy .30-06 ammo by the pound out of a barrel in the tackle shop. Mil surplus, pennies a round.

When we first put in the AWB (George Bush Sr.) the price of pre-ban guns went sky-high. Run of the mill AR's were going for $2500. I could have bought a Sig 550 for under $1100, now the same gun is like 5 grand because we can't import them and it's not made here.

Now that the ban is history, we can get a new AR for around $1000. A new Springfield M-14 is about $1600. That M700 .30-06 is around $700 for a nice version. But I still can't get that Sig 550.

I thought maybe your ban had the effect of making everything incredibly expensive, but it sounds like it already was. Plus you have all those idiotic rules, lol.

[gunnut]

I think the last brick of .22LR I bought was $8.99 at Big 5 Sporting goods.

When I was a kid I used to buy .30-06 ammo by the pound out of a barrel in the tackle shop. Mil surplus, pennies a round.

When we first put in the AWB (George Bush Sr.) the price of pre-ban guns went sky-high. Run of the mill AR's were going for $2500. I could have bought a Sig 550 for under $1100, now the same gun is like 5 grand because we can't import them and it's not made here.

Now that the ban is history, we can get a new AR for around $1000. A new Springfield M-14 is about $1600. That M700 .30-06 is around $700 for a nice version. But I still can't get that Sig 550.

I thought maybe your ban had the effect of making everything incredibly expensive, but it sounds like it already was. Plus you have all those idiotic rules, lol.

That was Bill Clinton's "crime bill" of 1994. I remember because I bought a load of regular capacity mags for all sorts of guns before the limit on capacity went into effect.

Oh...and a brick of 22LR is around $19 at Walmart now. Of course these are the plinker rounds, not match accuracy.

[Mihais]

Don't you reload?I made the math and you could have them for less than half the market price.Of course in US,because in the beloved motherland reloading is illegal.Well,posessing pyrotechnic materials like primers and powder is,but without them I can only throw brass and bullet at the target

[gunnut]

Don't you reload?I made the math and you could have them for less than half the market price.Of course in US,because in the beloved motherland reloading is illegal.Well,posessing pyrotechnic materials like primers and powder is,but without them I can only throw brass and bullet at the target

Reloading does save money in the long run, in bulk. However, I would require a work space to put a Dillon type reloader to crank out enough rounds in a decent amount of time to make it worthwhile. My time is expensive also. I could sleep, or watch TV, or just relax and do nothing at all.

I figure the 50% of savings just about pays for the time and the hassle of setting up reloading gear. So I just order a few case of 9mm and 45ACP at a time from online vendors. All the work I need to do is punch in a few keys at my computer and move the rounds from my porch to storage.

[Chunder]

Reloading .22 rounds? Sounds like something one would do in retirement.