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  • Russia's secret police wants to ban Gmail, Hotmail and Skype

    FSB wants to ban Gmail, Hotmail and Skype

    Russia's security services propose banning Gmail, Hotmail and Skype over encryption worries. The Information Ministry says that probably won't happen.
    Miriam ElderApril 8, 2011 07:28

    What is going on with Russia’s Internet? It feels like someone is trying to work out a strategy. Thus far, Russia has avoided the Great Firewall like China, preferring to deploy cyber attackers and teams of roving commenters to shut down discussion.

    That’s not how the FSB would have it. According to Ilya Massukh, the deputy head of the Information Ministry, the FSB has proposed shutting access to Gmail, Hotmail and Skype.

    “For example, access to Gmail from the side of the security service organs is currently unregulated,” he said.

    Alexander Andreyechkin, the head of the FSB’s center for information protection and special communications, explained the thinking of the KGB successor agency at a government commission on federal communications Friday.

    “Lately, the problem of using general cryptographic encryption – first and foremost, of foreign origin – in the networks has caused increasing concern for the FSB,” Alexander Andreyechkin, the head of the FSB’s center for information protection and special communications, said Friday. “This, in particular, concerns services such as Gmail, Hotmail and Skype.”

    “The uncontrolled use of such servers can bring a massive security threat to Russia,” he said, state run news agency RIA Novosti reported.

    Massukh said intense discussions were held and the outcome was the decision to create a working group to discuss the question of how Russia should deal with encrypted information. They’ll come up with an answer by October 1.

    “We probably won’t restrict citizens in a technological way,” Massukh said. “The position of the Information Ministry is that citizens shouldn’t be forbidden anything, especially the Internet.”

    Why formally forbid – and face the huge criticism China does – when you can simply deploy hackers and bots instead?

    Two years ago, Russia’s chief business lobby proposed banning Skype on the grounds that the Internet telephone service poses a threat to Russian business and national security. Many Russian opposition activists and human rights workers only agree to speak over Skype, since it’s believed the FSB can’t listen in.
    FSB wants to ban Gmail, Hotmail and Skype | GlobalPost

    I fear for Russia... FSB may just get their way with this, they are very powerful now.

  • #2
    Ok, Russian Geeks are just as every bit as good as Chinese Geeks. How is a bunch of old foggies like the FSB (and me) going to stop them? It doesn't take much to have an encrypted signal bounced two proxies outside of Russia.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Ok, Russian Geeks are just as every bit as good as Chinese Geeks. How is a bunch of old foggies like the FSB (and me) going to stop them? It doesn't take much to have an encrypted signal bounced two proxies outside of Russia.
      True. I know there are ways past this. It's just very disappointing they are even considering this. You know, my parents were at the Moscow White House in 1991, two of my brothers were there too, I was 2, my mother held me in her arms, as we listened to Yeltsin's speech off the tank, where he talked about democracy and the free market. Everyone then felt extatic, I am too young to remember, but one of the brothers told me later. We all thought there is a new future, a bright one, for our country, for all of us. And then, here is this future... I don't think I'll ever go back there now.

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      • #4
        Maybe it's protectionism on the part of the FSB? They reckon that if access to foreign servies are too difficult, most Russians will gravitate to the homegrown stuff.

        Though I suspect Russian alternatives aren't nearly as whacked out as what the Nashi cultists say.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
          Maybe it's protectionism on the part of the FSB? They reckon that if access to foreign servies are too difficult, most Russians will gravitate to the homegrown stuff.

          Though I suspect Russian alternatives aren't nearly as whacked out as what the Nashi cultists say.
          Well, there's vkontakte.ru

          That's like Russian Facebook.

          There's odnoklassniki.ru

          Social networking site where people can enter their school and year of graduation and search for classmates.

          There are several e-mail services, biggest one is mail.ru


          Search engines with own e-mail systems (like Google or MSN)

          yandex.ru


          and

          rambler.ru


          But they are all infiltrated bu FSB, fact. I've seen a anti-Putin group on vkontakte shut down, and several people who founded it were arrested, I am told. Just one example. FSB wants to control the internet, like Chinese secret police does. Actually, they have people in China, learning from them.
          Last edited by SA2003; 09 Apr 11,, 03:58.

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          • #6
            Was wondering if the Russians were kind enough to ask for a backdoor to the services.

            Recall Google obeyed China for such thing. There were also rumors in summer 2008 about Skype's backdoor, MS is constantly criticized about how their sw and services are reading book for us security agencies.

            Now if the very same services provided such features to one government, I see the point of the others asking for the same "favor".

            Fully understand the terrorists threat as an excuse, but Russians have the same concerns.

            I agree the data obtained from such possibilities will not be handled the same and that it is not the same being anti-Putin/Medvedev in Russia then anti-Obama in USA.

            For me, there is no such thing as controlled communication, it's like the locks. You make a lock and a smart burglar will break it sooner or later. But the feeling of having the door locked is priceless.
            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
              Though I suspect Russian alternatives aren't nearly as whacked out as what the Nashi cultists say.
              as whacked out you mean inferior?
              Last edited by omon; 09 Apr 11,, 15:08.
              "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by omon View Post
                as whacked out you mean inferior?
                Someone on another forum was claiming about how the superior Russian homegrown alternatives would sweep out the Facebook, google, et al through out the world. Pretty tall claims.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                  Someone on another forum was claiming about how the superior Russian homegrown alternatives would sweep out the Facebook, google, et al through out the world. Pretty tall claims.
                  I can't think of one scenario where that is possible considering the following:
                  • Possibility to fund/launch genuine product/service (R&D)
                  • People with access to internet in % as well as in total (users)
                  • PPP of those users (market)
                  • Online marketing revenues (revenues)


                  And even if someone in Russia has all that, there are a lot of companies with stockpile of cash to just buy that service.

                  The last genuine mainstream SW product coming for Russia with high potential (that I can recall) was Tetris:Dancing-Banana:.

                  Don't think the programmers in Russia are inferior, but when it comes to have an experience to finalize a project from idea to final wrapped product is still way behind then in USA/EU.
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Reactions:

                    Reaction from Kremlin
                    Meanwhile, the Kremlin was not in a hurry to support the FSB initiative. According to RIA Novosti, referring to an unnamed source in the presidential administration, the concerns expressed by Aleksandr Andreyechkin are his own opinion and do not reflect the policy of the Russian state.

                    Reaction from government
                    The FSB proposal to ban Skype and Gmail has once again unveiled the conflict between the Kremlin and the government. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's aide Dmitry Peskov has emphasized the importance of the position of FSB officials and dismissed public opinion that the real motive behind the initiative is to ban Russian citizens from accessing communication services which are difficult to control.
                    The initiative to ban Skype and Gmail is the official position of the FSB and not just the personal opinion of one of its representatives, Dmitry Peskov told online newspaper Gazeta.Ru, referring to the comment from President Dmitry Medvedev’s administration.
                    “FSB representatives do not make personal statements. Of course it is the position of the service, and it is carefully substantiated,” Gazeta.Ru quoted him as saying.

                    Reaction from State Duma
                    Gennady Gudkov, Deputy Head of Russia's State Duma, believes that Russia can establish co-operation with foreign manufacturers of electronics and software, including those involving such sensitive issues as encription.
                    “Restricting civilian rights would be wrong. We must find other ways to control the transmission of data,” RIA Novosti quoted him as saying.
                    Gudkov agreed, though, that some applications may pose potential risks.
                    “Undoubtedly, any technological solutions which have complex encription may bear the possibility of being used by destructive forces. The risk exists,” he said.
                    However, he pointed out that most Internet search engines have their own applications for telecommunications. “You close some – others will replace them. You can’t close the entire Internet,” he added.
                    Also, Gennady Gudkov stressed that all the services mentioned are very popular in Russia, and banning them would make the lives of many people miserable.
                    “Many families are separated by state borders. They use video-calls on Skype, and we mustn’t make their lives miserable,” he explained.
                    The decision to establish a working group was the right one, Gudkov concluded.

                    Google: open for co-operation
                    Meanwhile, Google says it is ready to share information with Russian law-enforcement authorities, though, according to the company, such requests have not yet been received.
                    “Google Inc. is committed to using the most advanced means of protection of its users’ information and co-operates with law-enforcement authorities in case unlawful content is revealed,” Interfax quoted the company representative Alla Zabrovskaya as saying.
                    At the same time, Google Transparency Report, which registers requests by various authorities to disclose information on some users or remove certain materials, states no such requests from Russia have been registered during the first six months of 2010. To compare, for the same period Google received 4,287 requests from the US authorities, 2,435 from Brasil and 1,430 from India.

                    FSB clarifies
                    Later on Friday the Federal Security Service clarified that it did not propose to ban Skype or Gmail, it had only “expressed concerns”, Gazeta.ru reports.
                    “There were no suggestions or demands from the FSB side at the session of the Government Commission for Federal Communications and Technological Aspects of Computerization to limit access for civilians to these services,” Interfax quoted the unnamed source in the FSB.
                    According to the same source, “some servers provide services outside the legal framework, national legislation.”
                    “In this regard, a solution to the problem has to be found within the commission framework, in order that the functioning of such services on the territory of Russia would comply with its national legistation and international practice. Ordinary civilians will not experience any inconveniences,” the statement said.
                    Russia is not proposing or projecting any measures to limit access to Skype or Gmail services in Russia, stressed the FSB spokesman. “On the contrary, technology development is a natural process, which should be facilitated,” he said.
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hopefully it's a whole lot of smoke for nothing.

                      This sounds like a case of telephone at work, just like the rumor that the Chinese were going to issue Mandarin only text books in Tibetan prefectures.

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