Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Price of Taxing the Rich

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Tax Freedom day in Va comes April 12. Want low taxes, try Tennessee.

    The Tax Foundation - Tax Research Areas > Virginia
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

    Comment


    • #17
      I notice there is some discussion going on regarding 'Progressive Tax' and 'Flat Tax' systems here.

      In my opinion flat tax might not be as easy to implement. Here is an article on 'Flat Tax Pros and Cons':

      Flat Tax Pros and Cons

      However, I believe if as said before that the lesser %age from the top bracket falling in tax category actually is a whole lot for the Government to look into:

      1. Income distribution
      2. Industry setup
      3. Employment schemes
      4. Skill development of the locals in institutions
      5. Government subsidies
      etc.

      regards,
      SP

      Comment


      • #18
        I call BS. From 50k to 500k the rate is 5 percent in ct then it jumps to 6.5 percent. That's hardly some massive increase. As you have stated so many times statisitics can lie. Take out the taxes paid on the first 500k to get an accurate reflection of the burden on the rich in CT compared to others. That also isnt accurrate. It's not the richest it's the top wage earners Shek. Theose are two different things.



        Gunut the math on what the average salary is in CA then how many wage earners there actually are and figuire out the flat tax rate needed to raise the same amount of money. I think you'll find you are advocating you making 50k a year are calling for an increase on your own taxes. My union highly skilled job gives me well over 100k in total compansation Gunut. I find it kind of loopy I actually advocate higher taxes on me and you advocate higher taxes on you and we disagree

        The alternative to the rich paying more is what....the poor who have no income paying more?????? We will need a lot more poor people to raise that revenue Of course that seems to be the Republican agenda.


        Today we are going to hear about how great block grants no strings is for medicaid. I'd prefer our taxes go down across the board by 60 percent of what the federal gooverment pays for medicaid and we cancel the program. 60 percent because we borrow the other 40 anyway seems reasonable. A block grant is just a flat out redistribution of wealth directly from rich states to poor states and since block grants would elimiante minimum care standards I oppose my money just being given out to places looking for a handout with no expectations. Even unemployment requires you look for a job. Watch how fast those calling for block grants would reverse course if they got no handouts from Ct, Ny, Nj, MA, CA and TX and had to foot the bill themselves. Haley Barbour would turn into a church mouse. You want the cash....take the minimum care requirements.
        Last edited by Roosveltrepub; 05 Apr 11,, 13:55.
        Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
        ~Ronald Reagan

        Comment


        • #19
          I still don't get this opposition on flat rate taxation...

          This progressive tax system all looks like punish-the-rich system.

          Erm, here in Macedonia they have 10% flat tax, and when it was introduced they deducted the tax rate for everyone (lowest was 15%, highest was 25%) and now they report increased tax revenues.
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            I still don't get this opposition on flat rate taxation...

            This progressive tax system all looks like punish-the-rich system.

            Erm, here in Macedonia they have 10% flat tax, and when it was introduced they deducted the tax rate for everyone (lowest was 15%, highest was 25%) and now they report increased tax revenues.
            Flat TAX is not a very good taxing system if the income distribution varies in range a lot. Simple reason is the PPP (Purchase Power Parity) in this case will get hit more the people who earn lesser salary. For example, a person on lesser wage let's say on 1000 per month on 10% will take an equal rate decline with a person on 50000 per month salary on Flat TAX system, whereas his share of over all contribution will be much less, which does not make economic sense where PPP reduction has not resulted in substantial economic contribution. However, this principle will work wonders if the salary range of most of the population is not very different since contribution share will be somewhat similar against the decreased PPP (Which is a fixed value in Fixed TAX system). Also, the money spending on local economy has a factorial value (I spend 50 buck for hair cut, barber saves 10 bucks and spends 40 bucks on grocery, grocer saves 10 bucks and spends 30 bucks on cake, baker saves 10 and spends 20 on flowers, florist spends 10 and spends 10 on mobile recharge and so on... which generates the real factorial value of my 50 bucks spending to 50+40+30+20+10+n = 150+n bucks). Therefore, people at really ranged (below) salary levels need to be exempted from the taxes (which is a type of subsidy) and there the progressive tax makes sense where it takes a bit extra from people who would anyway will buy the needs and wants and keep the money moving in the market.

            I have tried to explain an economics concept in a very short way, please do let me know your views.

            regards,
            SP
            Last edited by Spider_Pig; 05 Apr 11,, 12:35. Reason: Missed a bracket

            Comment


            • #21
              How can you call some tax system good (see mu fav Churchill quote in my signature)?

              Anyway, I am giving you an example from a country in development where they were able to decline the taxes for everybody, now how can it be a bad idea to be taxed with 10% instead of 15%?

              For two reasons I think flat is better then progressive:

              - 10% of 50000 is 5000 = 10% from 1000 - 100. So you take 50x more and get taxed 50x, not 65x, nor 35x. That way you threat everyone equally (A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well, should not be what successful people think)

              - The filthy rich save extra $$$. What will they do with those? Spend, Invest or put in Bank. In all the scenarios those extra $$$ will end in private enterprises which will invest them better then the government.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                How can you call some tax system good (see mu fav Churchill quote in my signature)?

                Anyway, I am giving you an example from a country in development where they were able to decline the taxes for everybody, now how can it be a bad idea to be taxed with 10% instead of 15%?

                For two reasons I think flat is better then progressive:

                - 10% of 50000 is 5000 = 10% from 1000 - 100. So you take 50x more and get taxed 50x, not 65x, nor 35x. That way you threat everyone equally (A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well, should not be what successful people think)

                - The filthy rich save extra $$$. What will they do with those? Spend, Invest or put in Bank. In all the scenarios those extra $$$ will end in private enterprises which will invest them better then the government.
                Well I am not disagreeing with you, however your point is based on certain assumptions that Private will invest better than the Government and the Filthy rich will spend all the money (since most of the money won't be spend and will become a capital for those filthy rich in the bank).

                Also, I am NOT saying flat TAX is a bad system, I am just putting my point in front by saying that "if the income variance is very big then Progressive TAX is better and if the income variance if very low then the Fixed TAX is better'. However, with today's large cities and n number of employments the salary ranges are not uniform, hence progressive TAX works better (as stated in my last comment).

                I agree there is 'No such thing as a good tax', however don't you agree that not all (and mostly most) countries do not have huge oil reserves (like UAE) so they can have have the luxury of 0% tax.

                Simple logic: If I am poor, don't make me poorer. If I am very rich... take something extra from me so the society becomes better.

                Comment


                • #23
                  My slightly right wing conservative nature tells me "Don't punish the successful" and this is where my starting point is. Oh, and I am not even close to filthy rich

                  Again, how will I make you poor if I reduct your current tax %?

                  Flat tax is simple, easy to calculate, need less bureaucracy to make it work, there is slim chance for tax evasion...

                  The only scenario where progressive is better then flat, is when you already have progressive tax, then you will lower (questionable) the incomes in the budget.

                  As for your remark about the income variance, I don't get it why progressive is better then flat. Please explain or give me a link.

                  If you don't think Government is a bad investor/businessman then feel free to install communism
                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                    My slightly right wing conservative nature tells me "Don't punish the successful" and this is where my starting point is. Oh, and I am not even close to filthy rich

                    Again, how will I make you poor if I reduct your current tax %?

                    Flat tax is simple, easy to calculate, need less bureaucracy to make it work, there is slim chance for tax evasion...

                    The only scenario where progressive is better then flat, is when you already have progressive tax, then you will lower (questionable) the incomes in the budget.

                    As for your remark about the income variance, I don't get it why progressive is better then flat. Please explain or give me a link.

                    If you don't think Government is a bad investor/businessman then feel free to install communism

                    Well please note the following:
                    • It's not about pushing the successful, it is about the distribution that needs to be justified. I am saying not to TAX the lower income... however if one need to create TAX exemptions then the gap in Government revenue needs to be paid by the people who earn higher. Then based on the income level the TAX needs to be increased so that the various income level feel lesser TAX and increase their PPP.
                    • I am not saying flat TAX is a bad or inferior system, it is just that it depends on variance of income that should decide the tax system being implicated.
                    • If flat TAX with soo many benefits was such a great tool, why the progressive TAX is in place? Because "Don't punish the successful" is not the case when we talk about living in a society and a fair distribution process. Flat TAX or Progressive tax will have their certain advantages and disadvantages. However, INCOME VARIANCE in the Economy will make a huge difference.
                    • Never I said you are filthy rich... however I hope you become very soon and give your fair share to the society so it can help in making better schools, colleges, hospitals (maternity wards), pensions, infrastructure etc. so more people become filthy rich :)
                    • Please consider a scenario... (1) you have 100 bucks to spend in a month and you lose 10 how would you feel and if you have 1000 bucks and lose 10 how would you feel. (2) you have 100 bucks you don't lose anything because the time till you reach 500 bucks your neighborhood spider man will lose 20 bucks out of his 1000 bucks kitty every month. (Please make your decision and also will spider man feel that bad as you would by losing 20 out of 1000 or you losing 10 out of 100)
                    • Ok a site that might give more insight on both Progressive and Flat Tax pros and cons:
                    Debate: Progressive tax vs. flat tax - Debatepedia, Debate on Progressive Tax versus Flat Tax
                    Last edited by Spider_Pig; 05 Apr 11,, 15:07. Reason: Spelling of right changed to rich

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Doktor View Post

                      If you don't think Government is a bad investor/businessman then feel free to install communism
                      I would request you not to put word in my mouth as I never stated that 'Government is a better or bad investor' than Pvt or vice versa. It all requires a blend of Public and Private Partnership to create a stable, equal and growing economy. (Please let's not assume what other has said and read between the lines when none is written).

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Shek:

                        Is your thesis that California is too reliant on income taxes at the top end?

                        I ask because it seems to me that there are a variety of potential economic conditions that can at any given time stress a state, county or municipality's tax system. That is, cut into their tax revenue expectations. For example, a drop in consumer spending will impact sales tax receipts; declining real estate values will impact real estate tax revenue, and so on.
                        To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                          Shek:

                          Is your thesis that California is too reliant on income taxes at the top end?

                          I ask because it seems to me that there are a variety of potential economic conditions that can at any given time stress a state, county or municipality's tax system. That is, cut into their tax revenue expectations. For example, a drop in consumer spending will impact sales tax receipts; declining real estate values will impact real estate tax revenue, and so on.
                          Exactly... and thats where the spending power of masses play a bigger role than TAX alone.

                          We have to understand that, the TAX system cannot just be changed to suit some people's requirement... TAX is as negative word as a feedback... however... if implied well it has very positive outcomes.

                          We have to enable people to purchase... then only the Economy will grow.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                            I think State income taxes should climb even higher. Tax them till they bleed, those filthy rich.

                            That way they will move to my state where we can sell them overpriced swampland.

                            No State income tax. Its in the Florida Constitution :Dancing-Banana:
                            You suck...
                            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Come on, people, move to California. We need more people to pay for our wasteful government.
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                Shek:

                                Is your thesis that California is too reliant on income taxes at the top end?

                                I ask because it seems to me that there are a variety of potential economic conditions that can at any given time stress a state, county or municipality's tax system. That is, cut into their tax revenue expectations. For example, a drop in consumer spending will impact sales tax receipts; declining real estate values will impact real estate tax revenue, and so on.
                                It also doesn't explain CT
                                Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                                ~Ronald Reagan

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X