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What is up with the F-35? Part II

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  • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    While certainly undesirable, the prospect of Turkey letting men from Moscow get a peek under the F-35's skirt is less problematic than might be initially assumed. It is certainly less of an issue than the prospect of the US risking a strategic geopolitical relationship with a partner in NATO.
    Speaking of our friends in Moscow, I've been reading about Russian troll army and its efforts to destabilize the West.
    One of their efforts has been to slander the F-35 program, which is admittedly very ripe (to say the least) for criticism.

    Thus, outsiders are baffled as to why such a massive failure isn't being dropped like a bad habit.

    The answer of course is that indigenous pilots who've actually flown the thing are going to their superiors and gushing about what a revolution the plane is.

    Wish I could find that article.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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      • Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
        Speaking of our friends in Moscow, I've been reading about Russian troll army and its efforts to destabilize the West.
        One of their efforts has been to slander the F-35 program, which is admittedly very ripe (to say the least) for criticism.

        Thus, outsiders are baffled as to why such a massive failure isn't being dropped like a bad habit.

        The answer of course is that indigenous pilots who've actually flown the thing are going to their superiors and gushing about what a revolution the plane is.

        Wish I could find that article.
        I guess Moscow is getting their rubles' worth with those trolls from the annoyance factor alone.

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        • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
          I wonder where China's jet engine industry is with ceramics? No matter what China's military fanbois say it still appears that they cannot build a jet engine that compares to even the
          last Soviet designs. They've been at it for over 20 years now, the WS10 was started in the 90s.

          I'd love to know what's giving them so much trouble. From what I can gather they cannot work out how to 'grow' a single crystal turbine blade. I wonder if they've tried to buy the seeds from the same place that supplies GE and Rolls?

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          • Chengdu Aerospace Superalloy Technologies can apparently grow globally competitive single crystals now (though they only started mass production last month, apparently).

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            • The plot thickens for Germany's Tornado replacement...

              BERLIN (Reuters) - The German Defence Ministry said on Monday that the European fighter jet was the leading candidate to replace its Tornado jets, which it wants to start phasing out in 2025.

              The ministry’s position appears to contradict that of the German air force, whose chief indicated last month that he preferred Lockheed Martin’s F-35, which meets the military’s requirements of stealth and long-distance operational capabilities.

              “The indicated view of the inspector of the air force that the F-35 Lightning II is an especially suitable successor to the Tornado system is not the position of the federal government,” Deputy Defence Minister Ralf Brauksiepe wrote in the letter.

              https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1E52EK

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              • Makes sense, tbh. They allready have it in service, so... even if it's an upgraded version, it will be easier and cheaper to integrate. Not to mention german current industrial involvement in the Typhoon.

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                • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                  Makes sense, tbh. They allready have it in service, so... even if it's an upgraded version, it will be easier and cheaper to integrate. Not to mention german current industrial involvement in the Typhoon.
                  I think industrial involvement and the desire to develop a European solution are driving the Federal Government's preference for the Typhoon, while capability concerns are driving the Air Force's preference for the F-35 over additional Typhoons.
                  Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 14 Dec 17,, 18:47.

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                  • Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                    I wonder where China's jet engine industry is with ceramics? No matter what China's military fanbois say it still appears that they cannot build a jet engine that compares to even the
                    last Soviet designs. They've been at it for over 20 years now, the WS10 was started in the 90s.

                    I'd love to know what's giving them so much trouble. From what I can gather they cannot work out how to 'grow' a single crystal turbine blade. I wonder if they've tried to buy the seeds from the same place that supplies GE and Rolls?
                    Jet engines are just about the most difficult to make mechsnical things made by man. All of the modern advanced ceramic and cmc material processing techniques are secret. It takes decades of research and development to get to a truly modern capability.

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                    • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                      Makes sense, tbh. They allready have it in service, so... even if it's an upgraded version, it will be easier and cheaper to integrate.
                      Not really. Remodelling the Typhoon into what Germany wants out of NextGenWS - basically a sensor fusion platform with the tactic-strategic capability envelope of the Tornado - would basically mean a whole new aircraft. And one with the blueprints then sold out to the US, since the primary driver is nuclear weapons integration.

                      Principally a not too unlikely overall solution will be to procure a wing of F/A-18G Growlers which would provide a squadron for electronic warfare and one for nuclear strike, with the remaining Tornados replaced by continuing production of a Eurofighter Tranche 4 which will fold over into continuing production by another wing to replace the Tranche 1 Eurofighters. That way Tranche 4 at about 95-100 aircraft would be sufficiently sized for being called a full Tranche (with separate development track) and deliveries could nicely tide over the production line for another five years past current planned end of production in 2023.

                      Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                      I think industrial involvement and the desire to develop a European solution are driving the Federal Government's preference for the Typhoon
                      It's the industry counterlobby to Rafale F4 as the sole other currently realistic option.

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                      • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                        I wonder if/when they will decide to buy the 35B.

                        Nothing has been said , but Hasgawa is releasing their 1/700 scale model of the new "Helo Destroyer" next month. And guess whats on deck.

                        Now I know that a model company isnt a key indicator, but, if you pay attention to the model world, Hasegawa seems to be the unofficial "Balloon Floater" for the Japanese defense force.

                        They released a Japanese F-35 before the government decided to buy them. They also released a Japanese V-22 before the government bought into that program. The first one rolled off the assembly line in Aug.

                        And they released a USMC MV-22 with Futenmia markings well before both governments made the announcement to base them there.

                        For a plastic model company they seem to have a pretty good crystal ball
                        Looks like you/they are on too something.

                        https://www.yahoo.com/news/japan-con...063856439.html

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                        • Originally posted by Dazed View Post
                          Looks like you/they are on too something.

                          https://www.yahoo.com/news/japan-con...063856439.html
                          As possession of aircraft carriers with offensive capabilities are currently banned under the Japanese constitution, it seems the plan is to allow the Izumos to serve as forward refueling and rearming stations for USMC F-35Bs rather than hosting JMSDF F-35s.

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                          • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                            As possession of aircraft carriers with offensive capabilities are currently banned under the Japanese constitution, it seems the plan is to allow the Izumos to serve as forward refueling and rearming stations for USMC F-35Bs rather than hosting JMSDF F-35s.
                            Yes. The article mentions article 9 of the Japanese Constitution also the refer placed the proviso if all of Japan's airfield are inoperative/destroyed by missiles. Also for bolstering defense around Japan's southwestern islands, where China's maritime activity has increased.
                            Last edited by Dazed; 28 Dec 17,, 19:15.

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                              • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                                As possession of aircraft carriers with offensive capabilities are currently banned under the Japanese constitution, it seems the plan is to allow the Izumos to serve as forward refueling and rearming stations for USMC F-35Bs rather than hosting JMSDF F-35s.
                                They'll probably put F-35s on the Izumos around 2023, IMO.

                                The best carrier capability Japan can hope for is a USS America sized vessel with a ski jump ramp. And that's if the star are right.

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