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Thread: What is up with the F-35? Part II

  1. #1891
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Nothing beats DIY, well done boys and girls.

    https://hackaday.com/2018/08/23/mari...ollar-fighter/

  2. #1892
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Senior Contributor JA Boomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Six C’s aboard CVN 72.
    And rumour has it filming for Top Gun 2 as well

  4. #1894
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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  5. #1895
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OmP2NxeF2ss

    Video: C’s aboard CVN-72.

  6. #1896
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Interesting little story out of Syria. Noticed the story started back in October 2017. Oh, well it is a slow news day here...

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/did-russi...141600170.html
    Last edited by tbm3fan; 03 Sep 18, at 07:05.

  7. #1897
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfng3569 View Post
    the saga continues....

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...-35s-to-turkey

    No Stealth For You!: Trump Signs Defense Bill That Blocks Transfer Of F-35s To Turkey

    just a snipit...

    The language in the law requires a written review within 90 days on Turkish-U.S. relations, including the use of Incirlik Air Base by American forces, as well as a risk assessment associated with delivering F-35s to Turkey as well as other platforms and weapons systems. It reads in part:

    Assessment of impacts on other United States weapon systems and platforms operated jointly with the Republic of Turkey" for the following

    (ii) the Patriot surface-to-air missile system;

    (iii) the CH–47 Chinook heavy lift helicopter;

    (iv) the AH–64 Attack helicopter;

    (v) the H–60 Black Hawk utility helicopter; and

    (vi) the F–16 Fighting Falcon aircraft.

    Only once these documents are delivered can a reevaluation of the restrictions be made.

    The first Turkish F-35 has already been delivered, but it will be some time before the jets actually migrate to Turkey as Turkish F-35 pilot training is just being spun up at Luke AFB in Arizona.

    Secretary of Defense James Mattis was opposed to blocking the transfer on the grounds that Turkey is still a regional strategic ally of the United States and that it would add to the F-35 program's cost and potentially disrupt its supply chain among other factors. But rhetoric emanating from Ankara doesn't point to the possibility of a repeal of the embargo anytime soon, as both Trump and Erdogan squabble over the return of religious leaders in each other's countries.
    I never understood the stupidy of this act. USA is delivering Turkey to Russia for free.... Putin couldn't dream of such present. No matter how it ends up Russia is in huge profit!!!
    F-35 not delivered to Turkey? Putin drinks Champaign.... finally F-35 delivered despite S-400 acquisition? Putin adds cavia sandwich to his plate to celebrate weakness of USA politics... Turkey gives up S-400 and gets F-35 - even better, the whole country is humiliated by USA and chances that these F-35 will ever threaten Russia if a clash with USA happens now much lower.

    Imagine what genious must be those politics who put USA in such a stupid situation )))

  8. #1898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    I never understood the stupidy of this act. USA is delivering Turkey to Russia for free.... Putin couldn't dream of such present. No matter how it ends up Russia is in huge profit!!!
    F-35 not delivered to Turkey? Putin drinks Champaign.... finally F-35 delivered despite S-400 acquisition? Putin adds cavia sandwich to his plate to celebrate weakness of USA politics... Turkey gives up S-400 and gets F-35 - even better, the whole country is humiliated by USA and chances that these F-35 will ever threaten Russia if a clash with USA happens now much lower.

    Imagine what genious must be those politics who put USA in such a stupid situation )))
    Not sure about who's drank how much champagne, but I'd imagine part of it being, similar to Irans F-14's, Russia having 'indirect' access to the F-35 at some point via Turkey is a bit concerning.

  9. #1899
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfng3569 View Post
    Not sure about who's drank how much champagne, but I'd imagine part of it being, similar to Irans F-14's, Russia having 'indirect' access to the F-35 at some point via Turkey is a bit concerning.
    f-35 is just a hardware.... while Turkey is a vital part of NATO southern flank. If it turns into Russian ally, it will be more damage than any f-35 secrets in Russian hands. Plus.... I doubt F-35 is that capable to be that valuable loss. Have read this thread some time back - US Defence Sector has lost its reasonableness completelly with this program

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    Turkey doesn't even share a border with Russia. It is hardly pivotal as it was during the cold war. It has a much bigger role to play in Mid East politics, but in that arena it is largely antagonistic to US interests. Two centuries of history along with The Sultan's ego will ensure that Turkey and Russia are never close allies. They cooporate in Syria to a limited extent out of necessity and convenience. Even now Russia is disregarding Turkish interests and concerns in Idlib and this will likely extend to Afrin and Al Baub once Idlib is reconquered.

    The F-35 should be denied to Turkey and it probably would be if Turkey didn't produce a small number of parts for the aircraft that would be time consuming to re certify from another source. Unfortunately that delay in production will probably result in the aircraft still being delivered to the Recepticons.

  11. #1901
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry View Post
    f-35 is just a hardware.... while Turkey is a vital part of NATO southern flank. If it turns into Russian ally, it will be more damage than any f-35 secrets in Russian hands. Plus.... I doubt F-35 is that capable to be that valuable loss. Have read this thread some time back - US Defence Sector has lost its reasonableness completelly with this program
    The F-35 is certainly valuable, but Russian agents looking up the F-35's skirt isn't necessarily a terrible strategic threat. Russian industry just isn't capable of building anything comparable whether they have the hardware specs or not. Additionally much of the F-35's capability is software driven and not even allied operators have access to the core code.

    This is a trend that actually started with the F-22, where the situational awareness and computational power is more valuable than the physical hardware of the jet. F-22 pilots have repeatedly said that the F-22's speed, maneuverability, acceleration, and even stealth are some of the least impressive aspects of the jet. The F-35 takes the informational and networking dominance even further and that kind of capability isn't readily replicated by examining the jet itself.
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 14 Sep 18, at 20:52.

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    Somewhat off topic question: is the F-35's active ECM system limited to the AGP-81 only? that would have directional and frequency limits. I'm aware the ASQ-239 covers 360 degrees and most of the radar spectrum in terms of geolocation, but the only other active emitter besides the radar seems to be the towed decoy.

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    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Somewhat off topic question: is the F-35's active ECM system limited to the AGP-81 only? that would have directional and frequency limits. I'm aware the ASQ-239 covers 360 degrees and most of the radar spectrum in terms of geolocation, but the only other active emitter besides the radar seems to be the towed decoy.
    The ASQ-239 is pretty versatile. It detects, and locates emission sources, as you mentioned. It can also perform search and track functions to provide range and velocity against targets at close range or that are using jammers. This allows it to cue a missile for 360 degree targeting of other aircraft without using the APG-81, much like the DAS but via radar rather than IR. This indicates that the 10 antennas the system has are capable of emissions and not just passive reception. It can also use these antennas for ECM functions that don't require the high power of the AESA radar such as false target generation and range-gate pull off/stealing.

    The ASQ-39 also quarterbacks the F-35's autonomous responses. It can utilize the APG-81, towed decoys, flares, etc. for ECM responses but also operates over MADL with networked F-35s to perform EW operations cooperatively.
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 17 Sep 18, at 15:23.

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    So you are confident that the antennas on the wings and stabilizers function as low power emitters? I suspect minimal power would be required for most forms of deceptive jamming considering how little energy would reflect off the airframe, but I've never seen any written description of the ASQ-2239 explicitly state that the antennas are transmitters as well as receptors. It would be a rather capable system in terms of band and bearing coverage.

  15. #1905
    Senior Contributor SteveDaPirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    So you are confident that the antennas on the wings and stabilizers function as low power emitters? I suspect minimal power would be required for most forms of deceptive jamming considering how little energy would reflect off the airframe, but I've never seen any written description of the ASQ-2239 explicitly state that the antennas are transmitters as well as receptors. It would be a rather capable system in terms of band and bearing coverage.
    Reasonably confident. I don't know how it could perform the functions listed below without transmitting, and the article specifically states that it isn't the APG-81. Naturally anything in the realm of EW is shadowy at best when it comes to public information, but I think it's a relatively safe assumption that the ASQ-239's antennas are capable of transmitting. If they have enough juice to perform search and track functions for 360 degree targeting they should certainly be able to mimic the F-35's radar echo and throw in a little doppler shift to screw with hostile SAMs or fighters.

    The AN/ASQ-239 “Barracuda” is an integrated Electronic Warfare (EW) and self-defense system. It is able to operate not just with other components within the aircraft such as the APG-81 but it can also operate with other F-35’s over MADL to perform EW operations together.

    It’s able to precisely geo-locate emission locations hundreds of kilometers away, further then it’s radar can see and from there the APG-81 can be slaved to that data track and then detect and track the object with a very narrow beam, increasing power and detection on target while decreasing detection by other aircraft.

    At close range or against targets using Jammers it is capable of narrowband interleaved search and track, which provides precise range and velocity that can then be used to shoot a missile without the need of the APG-81, allowing a 360 degree sphere of targeting other aircraft.

    The Barracuda can refer to its data-banks of known emissions and identify the source vehicle or store it for future classification. Other features are false target generation and range-gate stealing, offensive EW is possible, a towed RF decoy is also a part of the package as is a MJU-68/B Flares system.

    http://www.airdominance.nl/index.php/aircraft-f35.html
    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 17 Sep 18, at 22:47.

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