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Thread: What is up with the F-35? Part II

  1. #1816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I agree, budgetary short term fix with fingers crossed??
    Pretty much... and note that the Merlins won't even be dedicated helos... the whole thing is (sort of) plug and play in any of the upgraded helos.

  2. #1817
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    Guys I would suggest if we want to keep discussing the QE2 we may want to move to the Naval Thread. Lots of great expertise to chime in over there.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  3. #1818
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Pretty much... and note that the Merlins won't even be dedicated helos... the whole thing is (sort of) plug and play in any of the upgraded helos.
    There's alot the Government won't say at present due to spending commitments elsewhere. In other words its not politically sound to be seen to be spending on 70,000 ton carriers when Social and welfare services are being cut to the bone. In 2010 they were going to mothball them as soon as they were built...as time goes by and the finance improve more will be spent and hopefully the correct solutions will be put in place
    Last edited by Toby; 03 Jan 18, at 19:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Guys I would suggest if we want to keep discussing the QE2 we may want to move to the Naval Thread. Lots of great expertise to chime in over there.
    Ok, I thought that but I'm sure you can understand the overlap in this case.

  5. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Ok, I accept that. So in a high intensity situation, would 2 USMC Carriers be required. One specifically flying F35B's and one Helo's? Because if that's the case then I am beginning to understand the design of the RN new carrier as it can clearly do both without much of a problem
    From what I understand an Expeditionary Strike Group is a forward deployed, well rounded, quick reaction force. It's job is to be ready to hit hard and fast before a developing situation spirals out of control.

    Say a revolution or coup attempt suddenly gets underway in an ally's capital, a VIP hostage situation suddenly appears, or a natural disaster strikes. Having a battalion of Marines geared up and ready to defend a presidential palace, seize important dock yards, or build walls of sand bags within hours can nip a quickly developing situation in the bud.

    A Carrier Strike Group is the tool of choice for the raw combat power needed for sea control, air supremacy, and sustained power projection. They can continuously generate high sortie rates to keep the hits coming hard and fast.

    I like to think of it as two different kinds of fighters. A CSG is the prize fighter that can stand in the ring for 12 rounds and keep punching. An ESG is the bouncer that knocks down the angry drunk before he starts a brawl.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    An assault ship's standard compliment of F-35Bs is just 6, which may not sound like a lot. But keep in mind that they are primarily there to quickly hit high priority targets like hostile SAMs before tilt-rotor squadrons bring in marines to secure the ground.

    If hostile air forces attempt to intercede, an ESG is hardly defenseless. F-35's have proven to be quite adept at relaying targets for AEGIS cruisers and destroyers to engage with their ship based arsenals via networked targeting. Just a handful of F-35s armed mostly with bombs could still have over 100 high performance missiles at their fingertips with a Burke and Tico sitting offshore.

    An ESG doesn't host enough aircraft go out hunting far from their supporting ships, but that isn't really their job. They are there to support and defend the Marines on the ground.

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    Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 03 Jan 18, at 21:18.

  6. #1821
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
    From what I understand an Expeditionary Strike Group is a forward deployed, well rounded, quick reaction force. It's job is to be ready to hit hard and fast before a developing situation spirals out of control.

    Say a revolution or coup attempt suddenly gets underway in an ally's capital, a VIP hostage situation suddenly appears, or a natural disaster strikes. Having a battalion of Marines geared up and ready to defend a presidential palace, seize important dock yards, or build walls of sand bags within hours can nip a quickly developing situation in the bud.

    A Carrier Strike Group is the tool of choice for the raw combat power needed for sea control, air supremacy, and sustained power projection. They can continuously generate high sortie rates to keep the hits coming hard and fast.

    I like to think of it as two different kinds of fighters. A CSG is the prize fighter that can stand in the ring for 12 rounds and keep punching. An ESG is the bouncer that knocks down the angry drunk before he starts a brawl.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    An assault ship's standard compliment of F-35Bs is just 6, which may not sound like a lot. But keep in mind that they are primarily there to quickly hit high priority targets like hostile SAMs before tilt-rotor squadrons bring in marines to secure the ground.

    Even if hostile air forces attempt to intercede, an ESG is hardly defenseless. F-35's have proven to be quite adept at relaying targets for AEGIS cruisers and destroyers to engage with their ship based arsenals via networked targeting. Just a handful of F-35s armed mostly with bombs could still have over 100 high performance missiles at their fingertips with a Burke and Tico sitting offshore.

    I pity the fool that tries to go up against an ESG hosting even a handful F-35's.

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    Thanks now I get it...we're coupling the QE up with HMS Bulwark or Albion to give us a more compact strike group....Which is why we are retiring HMS Ocean

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    A british test pilot compares Harrier with the F-35.

  8. #1823
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    First non-US built B-model delivered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    No conventional emergency instruments? None?...
    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...9ed118e94.webp

    You can see the emergency gyro on the center console right. It's the red-blue illuminated instrument

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    Last edited by surfgun; 06 Mar 18, at 03:55.

  11. #1826
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    F-35C IOC is scheduled for late this year.
    http://seapowermagazine.org/stories/20180307-f35c.html

  12. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    I wonder if/when they will decide to buy the 35B.

    Nothing has been said , but Hasgawa is releasing their 1/700 scale model of the new "Helo Destroyer" next month. And guess whats on deck.

    Now I know that a model company isnt a key indicator, but, if you pay attention to the model world, Hasegawa seems to be the unofficial "Balloon Floater" for the Japanese defense force.

    They released a Japanese F-35 before the government decided to buy them. They also released a Japanese V-22 before the government bought into that program. The first one rolled off the assembly line in Aug.

    And they released a USMC MV-22 with Futenmia markings well before both governments made the announcement to base them there.

    For a plastic model company they seem to have a pretty good crystal ball
    This came out a few weeks ago. It looks like Hasegawa was right again

    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201802230054.html

    MSDF helicopter flattop Izumo designed as aircraft carrier

    Despite the Defense Ministry's denial that the helicopter carrier Izumo, launched in 2015, was planned to be refitted into an aircraft carrier, former Maritime Self-Defense Force executives confirmed that that is how the blueprints were drawn up.

    “It is only reasonable to design (the Izumo) with the prospect of possible changes of the circumstances in the decades ahead,” a then MSDF executive told The Asahi Shimbun. “We viewed that whether the Izumo should be actually refitted could be decided by the government.”

    The former executive said a consensus was reached privately among the MSDF that the Izumo should be considered for conversion into an aircraft carrier. But the MSDF couldn't explain the need publicly due to the government's view that aircraft carriers capable of launching large-scale attacks are equivalent to the military capability prohibited by the war-renouncing Article 9 of the Constitution.

    Ever since the Izumo's construction, experts both in and outside Japan have pointed out the possibility of turning it into a full-fledged aircraft carrier.

    However, the Defense Ministry publicly denied any plan to deploy fighter jets with strike capabilities on the Izumo and contended that it was not an aircraft carrier.

    The ministry has since done an abrupt about-face and now is mulling the possibility of refitting the vessel into an aircraft carrier.

    Such a reversal has inevitably raised suspicions that the ministry had this plan in mind from the beginning.

    Refitting the Izumo, the Maritime Self-Defense Force's largest vessel, into an aircraft carrier had been considered since late 2000 to bolster the nation's defenses against China’s increasing maritime advances around Japan’s southwestern islands, according to the MSDF executives.

    Equipped with a flat deck from bow to stern, helicopters can land on and take off off from the five spots of the flight deck at a time. The Izumo's basic design was formulated from 2006 through 2008.

    In 2008, Chinese naval vessels and other warships passing through the waters between the main Okinawa island and Miyakojima island, which lies to the southwest, were spotted for the first time. At that time Chinese government vessels intruding on Japan’s territorial waters became common.

    According to MSDF executives at that time, the MSDF saw the need to secure Japan’s competitive edge in the airspace to counter possible China’s maritime expansion in the East China Sea.

    However, the runway at the Air Self-Defense Force Naha Base is the only one that allows ASDF aircraft to take off and land in and around Okinawa.

    Therefore “the plan to construct the Izumo was settled with its future conversion in mind to prepare for any possible contingency of the unavailability of the ASDF Naha Base,” according to one of the executives.

    In those days, the U.S. F-35B stealth fighters, which could take off and land vertically, were in development, leading to a design conception of the Izumo on the premise that it could be converted to handle landings and takeoffs of the F-35B and other aircraft, such as the Osprey transport aircraft.

    The approximately 250-meter long Izumo’s elevator connecting the deck with the hangar was designed to accommodate the F-35B fighter, which measures about 15 meters in length and about 11 meters in width.

    Paint that can withstand the exhaust heat generated from F-35 fighter jets during landings and takeoffs was selected for the deck of the Izumo. It has also been expected to retrofit the Izumo with a sloping deck for takeoffs, the former MSDF executives said.

    If the Izumo is converted to enable landings and takeoffs of the F-35B, the vessel can be utilized to refuel U.S. stealth fighter jets anywhere in the world at any time, including during military emergencies under the new national security legislation.

    Even if it is designated a “defensive” aircraft carrier or with some other terminology, the refitted Izumo would be a vessel capable of attacking enemy targets.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  13. #1828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape;1037690[B
    MSDF helicopter flattop Izumo designed as aircraft carrier[/B]
    They still have to buy the F-35B unless they're planning on being a lily pad for the USMC.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #1829
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Its in the plans. Of course, not to be used off the Izumo. But for use at civilian airports throughout the island chain. (wink wink)

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...t-states-24544

    Japan is officially drawing up plans to acquire the F-35B, according to local media reports.

    This week, The Yomiuri Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, said that Shinzo Abe’s administration “is planning to indicate the number of [F-35B] aircraft to be procured in the next Medium Term Defense Program, which is to be compiled at the end of this year.” The story went on to report that the Abe government is “mulling including related expenses in the fiscal 2019 budget plan, with a view to starting the delivery of F-35Bs from around fiscal 2024.”

    Sources told The Yomiuri Shimbun that one plan is for Tokyo to acquire between twenty to forty F-35Bs, which would correspond to one or two squadrons. The planes would serve as the successors to the F-15, the Japanese Air Self Defense Forces’ current workhorse aircraft. Currently, Japan operates around 200 F-15s. One 102 of these will remain in service after being upgraded with more modern equipment. The rest will be replaced by the F-35B and the successor to the F-2 jet, under the plan being considered.

    This week, The Yomiuri Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, said that Shinzo Abe’s administration “is planning to indicate the number of [F-35B] aircraft to be procured in the next Medium Term Defense Program, which is to be compiled at the end of this year.” The story went on to report that the Abe government is “mulling including related expenses in the fiscal 2019 budget plan, with a view to starting the delivery of F-35Bs from around fiscal 2024.”

    Sources told The Yomiuri Shimbun that one plan is for Tokyo to acquire between twenty to forty F-35Bs, which would correspond to one or two squadrons. The planes would serve as the successors to the F-15, the Japanese Air Self Defense Forces’ current workhorse aircraft. Currently, Japan operates around 200 F-15s. One 102 of these will remain in service after being upgraded with more modern equipment. The rest will be replaced by the F-35B and the successor to the F-2 jet, under the plan being considered.


    The F-35B is the U.S. Marine’s version of the Joint Strike Fighter. Unlike the other variants of the F-35, the F-35B is capable of short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL). According to Lockheed Martin, the maker of the jet, it is the “the world’s first supersonic STOVL stealth aircraft.” As Lockheed Martin also notes, the F-35B “is designed to operate from austere bases and a range of air-capable ships near front-line combat zones.”

    These features are the primary attraction of the jet to Japan. The Yomiuri Shimbun article notes that Tokyo is interested in the F-35B because it can operate from commercial air strips rather than requiring longer military air strips. Japan sees this as especially valuable because some of its most distant islands only maintain commercial airports. Thus, the F-35B could help defend these islands. It would also allow the planes to disperse if Japan’s military bases came under attack from a country like China’s ballistic missiles. “The minimum runway length required for the advanced fighter to take off is relatively short, making it more likely to be able to actually take off even when the airstrip at its home base is under attack,’ the article states.

    Of course, as the article also notes, the F-35B would be the perfect aircraft if Japan wanted to operate fixed-wing aircraft from its Izumo-class helicopter destroyers, an idea I noted that Tokyo was considering back in December of last year. When the first of those massive helicopter destroyers was unveiled in 2013, many observers called it an “aircraft carrier in disguise.” It wasn’t hard to see why. The ship is roughly 250 meters (820 feet) long and displaces 24,000 tons. As I wrote back in 2013, the Izumo-class destroyers are about 50 percent bigger (in terms of displacement) than Japan’s then-largest ship, the Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer. Others have pointed out that the ships are actually larger than Spain and Italy’s short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft carriers. And, for good measure, the Izumo-class helicopter destroyers—of which Japan currently has two—were built with a hanger that can handle fixed-wing aircraft.

    Still, some modifications would have to be made for the F-35B to operate off of the Izumo-class destroyer. When Reuters first reported in December that Japan was considering this option, it reported that a refitting would be necessary. This would include “adding a curved ramp at the end of the flight deck, improving the deck's heat resistance against jet burners, and reinforcing the ship's air traffic control capability."
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  15. #1830
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    because it can operate from commercial air strips
    Reminds me of the spiel for selling the Harrier, back in the 70s...

    Also, if they want a fighter that uses shorter strips, buy the Grippen. Afaik, all Saab jets can take off from highways!

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