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What is up with the F-35? Part II

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  • So if no one is using a radar or other active sensors.... then doesn't it come down to AWACS?

    And I am assuming that the U.S. and allies still hold a decisive advantage in that regard?

    Comment


    • Something still has to use radar on each side unless you stumble close enough to pick things up on EO/IR. The difference on the horizon is that instead of each different platform requiring it's own radar to function, the information from a couple different platforms like AEGIS cruisers and AWACS using their high powered radars can be combined for a more complete picture, then disseminated to stealth fighters that are much better at staying hidden because they aren't emitting in order to find targets.

      Russia and China have maybe 30 AEW&C combined while the US has close to 100.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
        Something still has to use radar on each side unless you stumble close enough to pick things up on EO/IR. The difference on the horizon is that instead of each different platform requiring it's own radar to function, the information from a couple different platforms like AEGIS cruisers and AWACS using their high powered radars can be combined for a more complete picture, then disseminated to stealth fighters that are much better at staying hidden because they aren't emitting in order to find targets.

        Russia and China have maybe 30 AEW&C combined while the US has close to 100.
        exactly.

        and the I assume the U.S. is still pretty far ahead with AEW&C (tech wise and experience wise)

        so if you have a bunch of fighters flying around in the dark not emitting anything...... and once side has decided edge in AEW&C obviously one side should have quite the advantage.

        Comment


        • A newly released F-35C video from USS Nimitz (some segments previously seen).

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8JUo3XuALo
          Last edited by surfgun; 20 Oct 16,, 03:22.

          Comment


          • http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...ccessful-18280

            Remember when following the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program was like watching one of those dark dramatic series produced by HBO or FX? Problems with the aircraft, its engines and major systems seemed to pop up on a daily basis. The software was behind schedule, testing was not being performed at the proper pace and the program needed more time and money. There was even that awful period from 2011 to 2013 when the short take-off-and-landing variant built primarily for the Marine Corps, the F-35B, was placed on probation by then-Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

            Fast forward a few years and the Joint Strike Fighter program has become boringly successful. Both the U.S. Marine Corps and Air Force have declared initial operating capability. Equally important, both have a sufficient number of aircraft to do the development of operational concepts and tactics. Members of the International Consortium are receiving their first aircraft and several nations are actively investing in supporting infrastructure.

            Even recent challenges now proceed in a predictable manner with no serious impact on the overall program. In 2014 there was a catastrophic engine fire caused by the failure of a seal due to excessive fan blade wear. The engine manufacturer, Pratt & Whitney, responded rapidly with a full investigation and root cause analysis. An interim fix was identified for the existing F-35 fleet and a permanent solution designed and implemented first for new engines. Then there was substandard insulation in electric lines that grounded some 15 aircraft just this past September. It turned out to be a problem with one supplier and a particular batch of product that was quickly fixed. Several of the affected JSF’s are already back flying. The biggest problem is getting the F-35’s gun to fire with sufficient accuracy.

            The latest problem, stemming from the Imperial Office of Test and Evaluation (OT&E), is the announcement that the program will need an additional $550 million to complete development. Has there been a failure of a critical part? Does the software not work? Nothing of the kind. According to OT&E the additional funds are required to complete the full set of some 8,000 test points mandated by that organization. Think of it as a tax on the program to ensure the full employment of testers.

            There are no show stoppers remaining in the F-35 program, merely known problems to be addressed and advanced software drops to be written and installed. As the Under Secretary for AT&L, Frank Kendall, observed in a recent interview, “I have for some time not considered the F-35 to be one of my problem programs.” Like I said, successful and boring.

            In the meantime, aircraft are currently flying and the price for F-35s established for successive lots of new production aircraft continues to come down. The initial price for the F-35A, lots 1 and 2, was between $160 and $220 million per copy. The latest contract, for LRIP 9, has the price down to around $90 million a copy. The Air Force ended 18 months of negotiation with Lockheed Martin and imposed a total price of $6.1 billion for 57 aircraft in that lot.

            One remaining serious issue for the JSF program is not technical at all. It is the ability of Lockheed Martin to achieve a predictable and economical production rate. At such a rate, the company can negotiate with subcontractors and suppliers for a break on the price of materials and components. The workforce and production line can function optimally.

            Getting to the appropriate number of F-35s depends on Congress providing sufficient resources. Each time the Pentagon has been forced to reduce the number of JSFs it plans to buy in a given year from what had been planned the year before, it impacts the entire production process and the supply chain. The price for the next batch of aircraft cannot go down as much as expected. If Congress desires affordability it must fund an appropriate number of aircraft and do so not just for a single year but for five or even ten. Multi-year procurements for F/A-18 fighters, Black Hawk helicopters, the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, Virginia-class submarines, DDG-51 destroyers and Chinook helicopters have all reduced unit prices significantly.

            Dr. Dan Goure is a Vice President of the Lexington Institute. He is involved in a wide range of issues as part of the institute’s national security program.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bfng3569 View Post

              The latest contract, for LRIP 9, has the price down to around $90 million a copy.
              Does this include those extra $550 million?...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                Does this include those extra $550 million?...
                No, that is for additional developmental testing and evaluations extending through Nov. 2018 and isn't related to procurement. Those funds will be allocated next fiscal year and redirected from another part of the program.

                LRIP 9 represents a 3.7% price decrease from LRIP 8, but it wasn't signed in tandem with LRIP 10 as many were hoping.

                Comment


                • Interesting panel discussion on 5th gen fighters from a group of pilots who have flown both legacy aircraft and F-22/F-35 discussing what makes 5th gen fighters revolutionary. Well worth a watch if you have an hour to spare.



                  A couple things that popped out were comparisons of legacy fighters with flip phones with 5th gen fighters as iPhones. Both can make phone calls and send text messages, but smartphones have become so good at presenting information to the user, that their telephone capabilities have actually taken a backseat to the other functionality it offers.

                  Other branches of the military have benefited enormously from driving to push decision making to the lowest possible level in order to have faster reaction times. 5th gen fighters allow pilots to see the whole picture of the battlefield rather than just their little slice, thus they are put into a position to make informed decisions independently rather than relying on direction from above.

                  --------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Another thing that popped out as interesting is that the F-35's computers are too smart for their own good in some cases. When running scenarios at Eglin, the Air Force discovered that F-35 pilots weren't seeing the simulated SAM positions used for training legacy aircraft in spite of the F-35's superlative sensor suite.

                  It turns out the F-35's computer didn't have any trouble finding the "SAMs", but it saw through the fact that the Air Force's "radar on a stick" wasn't a real anti-aircraft site and decided to filter out the obvious fake so as to not clutter the pilot's display with distractions.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SteveDaPirate View Post
                    It turns out the F-35's computer didn't have any trouble finding the "SAMs", but it saw through the fact that the Air Force's "radar on a stick" wasn't a real anti-aircraft site and decided to filter out the obvious fake so as to not clutter the pilot's display with distractions.
                    ROFLMAO! That was funy!

                    Comment


                    • Any truth in this article? It makes a lot of assertions. If one is to believe even half of the things the guy writes, the F-35 would be considered an expensive lemon. What is his angle?


                      http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/de...___---2------0
                      "They want to test our feelings.They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and their newspapers."

                      Protester

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MIKEMUN View Post
                        Any truth in this article? It makes a lot of assertions. If one is to believe even half of the things the guy writes, the F-35 would be considered an expensive lemon. What is his angle?


                        http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/de...___---2------0
                        No, the whole site is run by a bunch of nutjobs....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by MIKEMUN View Post
                          Any truth in this article? It makes a lot of assertions. If one is to believe even half of the things the guy writes, the F-35 would be considered an expensive lemon. What is his angle?


                          http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/de...___---2------0
                          The F-35 is a total disappointment. Lockheed has only managed to sell a handful of the jets domestically to the Navy after being turned down by the other branches, and their hopes for exports have completely fallen through as other countries have watched the debacle unfold and steered clear.

                          4 F-35Bs take out 9 "attackers" - Nothing more than political spin

                          F-15's unable to shoot down F-35s, 0 losses in 8 dogfights against F-15E Red Air
                          - F-15s have never been any good, what does this prove?

                          The 33rd FW [F-35A squadron] scored over 110 kills against “enemy aircraft,” supported a surge of 138 sorties and dropped 24 GBU-12 bombs during Northern Lightning.
                          - Clearly false, because gun software
                          Not a single F-35 is “shot down” during the Green Flag exercises testing the jet and its pilots’ prowess in a contested air-support role. This is notable because A-10s and F-16s were defeated in the same conditions, operating in an environment with hostile aircraft and surface-to-air missiles, he said. - It's clearly it will be ineffective at it's job compared to the existing inventory.

                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Now that I got my sarcasm out : )

                          The F-35 is a very capable jet, that has undergone the usual teething problems that any new fighter does. The hubbub surrounding it is largely due to two things. The first is that it is the first fighter openly developed during the age of widespread internet usage. This means the door is wide open for rampant speculation and drama about every real or imagined issue by anyone and everyone.

                          The second thing that has caused so much drama is the way the F-35 program's financials are reported. Instead of just reporting on the procurement costs, the F-35 program reported the expected costs for the entire life of the platform out to 2070, in "then" year dollars. That's why you get people talking about the "most expensive defense program ever!"

                          In reality, the cost to procure an F-35 is actually less than building F-15s at this point, and the price has continued to fall with each production lot. It also brings a number of capabilities to the table that no other aircraft in the world can offer.

                          This is why the US is buying so many, and why so many other countries have eagerly signed on to acquire their own.
                          Last edited by SteveDaPirate; 19 Nov 16,, 17:38.

                          Comment


                          • Higher tempo ops off of AMERICA.
                            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cYnukFIuOs

                            Comment


                            • Weapons loading test on USS America

                              http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=97774
                              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                              Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                                Higher tempo ops off of AMERICA.
                                Wow the engine nozzle is really busy and moving a lot when conducting a short take-off from the LHA. Wasn't expecting that.

                                Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                                Weapons loading test on USS America
                                I have to wonder if weapons loading into the weapons bays is a pain in the ass requiring some Gumby type maneuvers in tight spaces.

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