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  • #16
    Only a few of Libya opposition’s military leaders have been identified publicly
    By Walter Pincus, Friday, April , 9:34 PM

    Only a handful of the Libyan opposition’s military leaders have been publicly identified by name and it is still unclear whether they are working together or in competition with each other, according to current and former intelligence officials.

    Military leaders include a longtime opponent of Moammar Gaddafi who spent two decades in Northern Virginia and a former general who once helped bring the Libyan leader to power.

    The CIA has dispatched operatives into Libya to quickly gather intelligence on the identity and ambitions of the rebels. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has already described the opposition’s leadership, broadly speaking, as “a very disparate, disaggregated” group.

    That description appears to apply equally well to the opposition’s military leaders.

    The senior defense official on the Transitional National Council, the opposition’s governing body, is listed on the group’s Web site as Omar Al-Hariri. Hariri, the former general who helped bring Gaddafi to power in 1969, was imprisoned with 300 others after a failed coup six years later and was held there until 1990, when he was placed under house arrest.

    Until recently, he was still under house arrest in the city of Tobruk.

    “This time, the people will be our safeguards,” the 67-year-old Hariri said in a March 2 interview with the Canadian Globe and Mail newspaper. “They will elect a new president, and he will serve for a limited time. He could be removed if he does not serve the people. And, of course, we will need a parliament and a multiparty system.”

    Gen. Abdul Fattah Younis, another known military leader, spent the past two decades with the Libyan regime. Younis, who was Gaddafi’s interior minister and the commander of the Libyan special forces, broke ranks in February.

    Khalifa Haftar, a former Libyan army colonel who for years commanded the Libyan National Army (LNA), an anti-Gaddafi group, joined Younis in early March in Benghazi.

    Like Hariri, Haftar had been part of the 1969 coup and was rewarded with a position on Gaddafi’s Revolutionary Command Council. He later led Libyan troops in their war with neighboring Chad for seven years until his capture by Chadian forces.

    In 1988, he changed sides and established the LNA, allegedly with backing from the CIA and Saudi elements. In 1996, he was reported to have been behind an alleged uprising in eastern Libya. By that time, he was already settled with his family in Falls Church.

    Asked about Haftar and any connection to the CIA, a senior intelligence official said it was policy not to discuss such issues.

    The British newspaper the Daily Mail described Haftar as one of the “two military stars of the revolution” who “had recently returned from exile in America to lend the rebel ground forces some tactical coherence.”

    But given the uncertainty within the Libyan opposition camp and the disparate nature of military forces, it is difficult to sort out any leadership structure. Younis and Haftar, for instance, have been on opposite sides for at least 20 years, leaving it uncertain whether they have been able to align their interests.

    Another self-proclaimed military leader is Abdul Hakeen al-Hasadi, who had claimed that he fought against U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. He was captured in Pakistan and jailed, probably in Bagram, until his release in 2008.

    Hasidi’s presence within the Libyan opposition has drawn the attention of members of Congress. At a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Thursday, Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) confronted Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg on Hasadi, asking: “Is he incarcerated? Or is he commanding rebel forces right now? Or you don’t care enough?”

    Steinberg responded, “Congressman, again, I think — if we want to get into the details, I think we could have a further conversation in a closed session on this.”

    [email protected]

    Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

    © 2011 The Washington Post Company
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

    Comment


    • #17
      Some more excerpts from Fareed's show yesterday. He had a french intellectual credited with influencing Sarkozy with moving on the intervention.
      So we marched to war because of a frog media whore....
      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

      Comment


      • #18
        No, you marched into war because your president though it was a good idea otherwise the plan would be dead.

        Why ?

        Comment


        • #19
          Thinking? You give Hussein the Lesser too much credit.

          =============
          At least the rebels will fight something...

          Sub-Saharan Africans bear brunt of rebels’ ire
          http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f4fff59c-5...#axzz1IfL5ZP6k
          By Katrina Manson in Nairobi

          Published: March 29 2011 23:57 | Last updated: March 29 2011 23:57

          As rumours of black mercenaries flown and trucked into Libya in their thousands have swirled about the country, poor sub-Saharan African migrant workers have borne the brunt of rebel outrage at the claims.

          Aid groups, long barred access to the country, estimate anything from 500,000 to 1.5m black Africans may be based in Libya, many of them illegally.

          United Nations agencies have set up hotlines for those trapped inside the country and have so far chartered flights for 59,000 people who have managed to escape to the border.

          “Even before this, black Africans in general are not liked at all, but this [mercenary] theory has made the situation tremendously worse,” one black African man, holed up at home and too worried about reprisals to be identified by name or nationality, said by telephone from Tripoli.

          Like many black Africans, he speaks of rebel sympathisers in the capital Tripoli clamouring outside his door at night, warning him he will be the first to be killed when the regime falls. For a while, he fled to a farm on the outskirts of the capital with a dozen or so others, until the farm owner found them and chased them out. His job stopped with the crisis, and this week he was robbed of all his rent money at knifepoint in a bread line.

          The UN refugee agency, UNHCR, said it has become a “poisonous” atmosphere for sub-Saharan Africans in Libya, noting youth gangs this week broke down the doors to threaten an Eritrean family in hiding for three weeks, and that there are unconfirmed reports of some killed.

          The UN migration agency said: “So far the advice we’ve been giving is if you’re in a safe place, then stay for the time being.”

          The threats mean that some among the poorest and least respected of Libyan society are now rooting for Gaddafi’s regime to prevail.

          Says the man in hiding: “Some people here among the black African community tend to support the regime purely on the basis of wanting to survive. If the rebels win, they’re going to unleash their terror on black Africans.”

          It is a sorry development for many who sought sanctuary in the country, fleeing war or political persecution at home. Five years ago, aged 32, the man walked across the Sahara desert, exhausted as some of his fellow travellers’ legs gave way, in the hope of reaching respite in Libya. His salary of $300 a month was three times what he might make back home, but his longed-for better life was characterised by constant racist abuse, being beaten on the streets and eventually being taken on by employers who purposefully kept his status illegal so he could not leave.

          .....
          To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by troung View Post
            So we marched to war because of a frog media whore....
            It's not a war. It's a "kinetic military operation."

            WTF is a "kinetic military operation?" Is there a "static military operation?"
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by troung View Post
              Thinking? You give Hussein the Lesser too much credit.

              =============
              At least the rebels will fight something...
              Should we bomb the rebels for "harming civilians?"
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

              Comment


              • #22
                They aren't white, ergo they are in capable of being racist.
                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by troung View Post
                  They aren't white, ergo they are in capable of being racist.
                  That's what I always tell others when I tell racist jokes.

                  "I can't possibly be racist. I'm not white!"
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by troung
                    As rumours of black mercenaries flown and trucked into Libya in their thousands have swirled about the country, poor sub-Saharan African migrant workers have borne the brunt of rebel outrage at the claims.
                    That's what they are, just rumours.

                    Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): The Foreign Secretary and the shadow Foreign Secretary both acknowledged that the Gaddafi regime is at least partly propped up by murderous mercenaries who are terrorising the civilian population. Will my right hon. Friend therefore indicate what steps the Foreign Office, NATO and our allies are taking to stop the entry into Libya of mercenaries from Chad and Niger?

                    Mr Hague: Yes, that is one of the things attended to in the UN Security Council resolutions, which call for action against mercenaries entering the country. My hon. Friend is quite right that there is a good deal of evidence that Colonel Gaddafi has bought some of the military support that he has employed over the last few weeks. Although I cannot go into any operational details, we will take action whenever we can, and whenever we have the necessary information, against the supply of mercenaries to Libya. We have been in touch with neighbouring countries about that. People entering Libya in order to do violence to the civilian population of Libya do so at their peril.
                    as discussed in the HOC on Apr 4 2011

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Fighting real Chadians might be bad for one's health, so unarmed migrants will have to do...
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        It's not a war. It's a "kinetic military operation."

                        WTF is a "kinetic military operation?" Is there a "static military operation?"
                        We don't have wars anymore. We have KMA's and OCO's.

                        It's easier that way, the president doesn't have to talk to the Congress.
                        "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Chad says citizens abused in rebel-held Libya
                          Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:17am GMT
                          Chad says citizens abused in rebel-held Libya | Top News | Reuters

                          N'DJAMENA (Reuters) - Chad on Sunday called on coalition forces to protect its citizens in rebel-held areas in Libya, saying dozens had been accused and executed for allegedly being mercenaries in the pay Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

                          When protests against Gaddafi's government led to violence in February, rebels said Gaddafi had brought in African mercenaries from countries such as Chad and Zimbabwe to help in the crackdown after Libyan troops proved unreliable.

                          "Since the beginning of the Libyan crisis, Chadians in Libya, especially those in areas controlled by the transitional national council, have been singled out," a statement from Chad's government spokesman Kalzeubet Pahimi Deubet said.

                          "Dozens of Chadians have known this sad fate," he said.

                          The statement said several Chadian nationals had been arrested, some were "paraded on television as mercenaries and sometimes executed" despite denials that Libya had recruited any mercenaries from its southern neighbour.

                          The government of Chad had said about 300,000 of its citizens resided in Libya before the crisis.

                          "The Chadian government is calling on international coalition forces involved in Libya and international human rights organisation to stop these abuses against Chadians and other migrant Africa workers," the statement said.

                          © Thomson Reuters 2011 All rights reserved
                          To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Do Libyan Rebels Have Al-Qaida Links?

                            by Rachel Martin

                            April 6, 2011
                            Listen to the Story

                            Do Libyan Rebels Have Al-Qaida Links? : NPR
                            text size A A A
                            April 6, 2011

                            The Obama administration says it hasn't yet made up its mind whether to arm Libyan rebels, in large part because there are still too many questions about who the rebels are and whether they have links to al-Qaida. The CIA has deployed covert teams to the country to try to find out more.

                            "We have seen flickers in the intelligence of potential al-Qaida," Adm. James Stavridis, the U.S. commander who oversees NATO forces, said on Capitol Hill last week. "But at this point, I don't have detail sufficient to say that there's a significant al-Qaida presence or any other terrorist presence in and among these folks."

                            But Bruce Reidel, a former CIA official now with the Saban Center for Middle East Studies at the Brookings Institution, says the U.S. needs "more than a good hunch" about al-Qaida's presence.

                            Walking-Around Money

                            He says a key part of the CIA's covert mission in Libya is understanding who the rebels are. That means gauging alliances and assessing how much real support Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has among certain tribes. One tool the CIA uses is so-called walking-around money that the agency can use to try to persuade tribes to switch sides.
                            Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh speaks at a pro-regime rally in the capital, Sanaa, on April 1. U.S. counterterrorism officials fear that Saleh's ouster could provide a boost to al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula.
                            Trouble in Yemen Could Give Al-Qaida New Opening

                            The U.S. is considering resurrecting a Predator drone program to target suspected terrorists.

                            "This is one of the things we did in Afghanistan in 2001," Reidel says. "And if there's a tribal leader who's wavering between supporting Gadhafi or supporting the rebellion, we say, 'How much? How much will it cost for you to come over?' "

                            According to one counterterrorism official familiar with what's unfolding in Libya, the big problem is knowing whom to give the money to because the rebels who seem the most professional are the ones who may have received their training while fighting against the U.S. in Iraq and Afghanistan.

                            That brings us back to the crux of the covert mission in Libya: figuring out what role Islamic extremists have in the rebellion. For more than a decade, the CIA has been tracking a terrorist organization called the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which has deep ties to al-Qaida.

                            Reidel notes that there are Libyans in al-Qaida's senior hierarchy, and fighting with the group in Afghanistan against NATO forces.

                            "There is a longstanding pattern of Libyans being associated with al-Qaida and likeminded groups," he says.

                            Libya And Al-Qaida

                            Until a few weeks ago, Gadhafi was the CIA's ally in fighting this group. Now, CIA teams on the ground have to figure out for themselves how much influence the group may have in Libya's rebellion.

                            "There's no question that a call has gone out from al-Qaida and a number of other terrorist organizations that people should come report in in Libya and join the fight," says Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

                            Feinstein says it has been impossible to determine exactly who is answering that call.

                            "No one knows. I can't tell you how many Islamic fundamentalists who want a jihad are in Libya today. I cannot tell you how many of them are on the frontlines," she says. "I don't know. We are working from a blind spot."

                            That blind spot is the reason Feinstein and other lawmakers say they don't want to arm the Libyan rebels. President Obama has said he is not ruling out that possibility — at least not until the CIA has come back with some answers.
                            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Infighting hinders Libya rebel leadership
                              Opposition also stalled on battlefield
                              By Kareem Fahim
                              New York Times / April 4, 2011
                              Infighting hinders Libya rebel leadership - The Boston Globe

                              BENGHAZI, Libya — As the struggle with Moammar Khadafy threatens to settle into a stalemate, Libya’s rebel government is showing growing strains that could hurt its effort to complete a revolution and jeopardize its requests for foreign military aid and recognition.

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                              The divisions were evident last week, when the three men commanding the opposition forces were summoned to a series of meetings in Benghazi, the rebel capital, to discuss the sagging battlefield fortunes.

                              The rebel army’s nominal leader, Abdul Fattah Younes, a former interior minister and friend of Khadafy whom many rebel leaders distrusted, could offer little explanation for the recent military stumbles, two people with knowledge of the meetings said.

                              Making matters worse, the men could hardly stand one another. They included Khalifa Heftar, a former general who returned recently from exile in the United States and appointed himself as the rebel field commander, and Omar el-Hariri, a former political prisoner who occupied the largely ceremonial role of defense minister.

                              “They behaved like children,’’ said Fathi Baja, a political science professor who heads the rebel political committee.

                              Little was accomplished in the meetings, the participants said. When they concluded late last week, Younes was still head of the army and el-Hariri remained as defense minister. Only Heftar, who reportedly refused to work with Younes, was forced out, hinting at divisions to come.

                              Militarily, the rebellion appears to be locked in a stalemate. On the eastern front, near the oil town of Brega, the two sides exchanged rocket and mortar fire for several hours yesterday but the battle lines did not change. Loyalists continued to hold most of the town, with the rebel forces massed on the road to the northeast of the city.

                              The United States has agreed to NATO’s request for a 48-hour extension of American participation in coalition airstrikes against Libyan military targets. Air Force AC-130 gunships and A-10 Thunderbolts and Marine Corps AV-8B Harriers will continue to attack Khadafy’s troops and other sites through tonight.

                              In an appearance yesterday on CNN’s “State of the Union,’’ General James L. Jones, President Obama’s former national security adviser, said that the United States “is buying space for the opposition to get organized.’’

                              But a White House official said last week that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was reluctant to send arms to the rebels “because of the unknowns’’ about who they are, their backgrounds, and motivations.

                              The Benghazi meeting on the faltering military effort was a study in the struggles of an inexperienced rebel movement trying to assert its authority, hold on to its revolutionary ideals, and learn how to run a country on the job.

                              In a country where politics was dominated for decades by Khadafy, his family, and his loyalists, the rebels have turned for leadership to former government figures and exiles they seem to know by reputation alone, and whose motives they do not always trust.

                              There have been several hopeful signs. Specialists on oil and the economy have joined the rebel ranks, and a rebel spokesman prone to delusional announcements was quietly replaced. Police officers appeared on the streets of Benghazi last week, in crisp new uniforms. Despite the dismal progress on the battlefield, thousands of Libyan men volunteer to travel to the front every week.

                              Still, many decisions are made in secret and are leaked to Libyans piecemeal, by a few rebel leaders who seem to enjoy seeing themselves on Al-Jazeera, the satellite news channel. But with each day that Khadafy remains in power, the self-appointed leaders of the rebel movement face growing questions about their own legitimacy and choices.

                              The Libyan rebels have insisted on removing Khadafy and his sons from power, and said they would not negotiate with them. But an envoy of Khadafy’s government told Greece’s prime minister yesterday that the Libyan leader was seeking a way out of his country’s crisis two weeks after the start of international airstrikes, the Associated Press reported, quoting Greek officials.

                              Abdul-Ati al-Obeidi, a former Libyan prime minister who has served as a Khadafy envoy during the crisis, will travel next to Turkey and Malta in a sign that the regime may be softening its hard line in the face of the sustained attacks.

                              “From the Libyan envoy’s comments it appears that the regime is seeking a solution,’’ Greek Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas said after the meeting.

                              In a separate development, a diplomat with close ties to the Libyan government said one of Khadafy’s sons, Seif el-Islam Khadafy, is proposing a resolution to the conflict that would entail his father relinquishing power for a transition to constitutional democracy under his son’s direction.

                              Neither Khadafy nor the rebels seeking his ouster appear ready to accept such a proposal without more negotiation, the diplomat said, speaking on condition of anonymity to divulge private conversations within the government. “This is the beginning position of the opposition, and this is the beginning position of the Libyan government,’’ the diplomat said. “But the bargaining has yet to commence.’’

                              Libyan officials have declined to comment on any talks. Speculation has swirled about a possible proposal from the Khadafy camp since Seif al-Islam el-Khadafy’s top aide, Mohamed Ismail, traveled to London for undisclosed talks with the British several days ago. The diplomat’s account is the first insight into the content of those talks and the latest sign that the Khadafy government may be feeling the pressure of the allied airstrikes.

                              The Libyan opposition is supposed to be represented by a national council, but it has become increasingly difficult to locate the center of the rebels’ power.

                              Many rebels have never met two of their most prominent leaders: Mahmoud Jibril, an exiled former government official, and Ali Essawi, the former Libyan ambassador to India.

                              Jibril has not returned to Libya since the uprising began, spending much of his time meeting overseas with foreign leaders. The two sit on a rebel executive council, one of several governing structures that the rebels refuse to call a government.

                              Calling it one, they say, might alienate opposition figures in Western Libya and promote fears about a civil war. The rebels also clearly think that Jibril, who was educated in the United States, and another executive committee member, Ali Tarhouni, who until recently taught economics at the University of Washington, will be able to help sell the rebels’ cause abroad.

                              Material from the Associated Press was included in this report.
                              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by troung View Post
                                The rebel army’s nominal leader, Abdul Fattah Younes, a former interior minister and friend of Khadafy whom many rebel leaders distrusted, could offer little explanation for the recent military stumbles, two people with knowledge of the meetings said.
                                Just being diplomatic

                                Think Senator McCain had a point when he said, pulling out US support just when the rebels were winning sent the wrong signal. Their reverses are due to a lack of CAS support.

                                Originally posted by troung View Post
                                Making matters worse, the men could hardly stand one another. They included Khalifa Heftar, a former general who returned recently from exile in the United States and appointed himself as the rebel field commander, and Omar el-Hariri, a former political prisoner who occupied the largely ceremonial role of defense minister.

                                “They behaved like children,’’ said Fathi Baja, a political science professor who heads the rebel political committee.
                                Victory has a thousand fathers, when things take a wrong turn nobody wants to own up.

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