Originally posted by 1979
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WWII Bomber comparison I Flying Fortress vs Lancaster
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Regardless of the numbers, it was horrendously dangerous for all the strategic bombers. No, Mr. Baldwin, the bombers WILL NOT always get through... at least not without crippling casualties.
I've often wondered if the Luftwaffe pilots felt any sort of pang while cutting these lumbering targets to pieces. Probably not, considering what the bombers were doing to their cities. I'll suspect there was respect for their bravery, though.
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from what i've read, most of the german civvies understandably...not happy with the pilots they captured after bailing.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by Chogy View PostProbably not, considering what the bombers were doing to their cities.
Churchill had watched a film of Germany being bombed and asked "Are we beasts? Are we taking this too far?"
Richard Casey, an Australian in his War Cabinet, replied along the lines of we hadn't started it, and that it was us or them.
Arthur 'Bomber' Harris famously defended his so-called 'strategy' with: "They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."Last edited by clackers; 12 Apr 11,, 13:59.
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Originally posted by clackers View PostArthur 'Bomber' Harris famously defended his so-called 'strategy' with: "They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
Was WW2 a total war? Was the Japanese schoolteacher contributing to the war effort by molding young minds? Was the post man also doing so because some of his mail was military? Did this make them targets? We've pondered stuff like this for decades and there's no easy answer.
It came down to "who dies, us or them" and chose them. Can't blame the allied leadership in 1945.
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Originally posted by Chogy View Post
Was WW2 a total war? Was the Japanese schoolteacher contributing to the war effort by molding young minds? Was the post man also doing so because some of his mail was military? Did this make them targets? We've pondered stuff like this for decades and there's no easy answer.
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Originally posted by zraver View PostBut if their deaths helped end the war by crushing their nations will to resist, how many lives were ultimately saved by avoiding an invasion where Japan was preparing for national suicide. How many boomers and kids of boomers would not be here today?
Wars have to be cruel, ugly, dangerous, brutal, bloody, murderous, lest we find them too convenient."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by gunnut View PostI always say, watch the Star Trek episode called "A Taste of Armageddon."
Wars have to be cruel, ugly, dangerous, brutal, bloody, murderous, lest we find them too convenient.
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Originally posted by zraver View PostBut if their deaths helped end the war by crushing their nations will to resist, how many lives were ultimately saved by avoiding an invasion where Japan was preparing for national suicide. How many boomers and kids of boomers would not be here today?
There is a popular trend these days to make the value of enemy combatants (and civilians) equivalent to our own. We could have eliminated all resistance in Fallujah with a handful of B-52 sorties. Instead, we expended blood to do the same with fewer enemy casualties. I don't agree with this concept... but there's no easy answer, and a price to pay, politically.
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i've seen conflicting evidence for the utility of carpet bombing in terms of breaking enemy morale. in the case of germany, civilian deaths, if anything, hardened the german populace. same with the result of the limited german bombing of the UK, and the american bombing of japan.
OTOH, the vast number of deaths caused by the bombing certainly made the post-war reconstruction easier. most of the civilians knew the power of Allied force and could not deceive themselves that they lost due to a stab in the back.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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Originally posted by astralis View Posti've seen conflicting evidence for the utility of carpet bombing in terms of breaking enemy morale. in the case of germany, civilian deaths, if anything, hardened the german populace. same with the result of the limited german bombing of the UK, and the american bombing of japan.
OTOH, the vast number of deaths caused by the bombing certainly made the post-war reconstruction easier. most of the civilians knew the power of Allied force and could not deceive themselves that they lost due to a stab in the back.
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Originally posted by astralis View PostOTOH, the vast number of deaths caused by the bombing certainly made the post-war reconstruction easier. most of the civilians knew the power of Allied force and could not deceive themselves that they lost due to a stab in the back."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by jonnybottle View PostI can confirm that it was the Lancaster that hogged the glory in postwar UK. They were still flying as the Lancastrian transport in the 1950s and we adored to see them
Glad you've joined us.
Please introduce yourself here
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab...embers-56.html
This is a set of rules you should look at, some special things about the WAB things will make sense when you've read this.
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab...val-guide.htmlsigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
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Chogy,
One point I missed a year ago on these discussions regarding Japan and the Twentieth Air Force's campaign agaionst the population centers.
I don't have the stats at hand but an astounding number of Jaanese war industry was truly a cottage industry with "mom and pop" operations all throguhout metropolitan and "civilian" areas. The B-29s had that intelligence and bombed accordingly.
I have no qualms with what we did.“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
Mark Twain
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