Ciws

[Yukon65]

Out of curiosity as anyone given any thought to designing a close in weapon system for either ground units or naval ships to lets say shoot down bombs. Was thinking a 40mm type gun guided by radar of some sort could be effective.
Was thinking about this after I had seen a few videos of a phalanx system shooting down mortar bombs. Think a 40mm or larger weapon could shoot down a laser guided or dumb bomb at a fair distance.

[USSWisconsin]

Out of curiosity as anyone given any thought to designing a close in weapon system for either ground units or naval ships to lets say shoot down bombs. Was thinking a 40mm type gun guided by radar of some sort could be effective.
Was thinking about this after I had seen a few videos of a phalanx system shooting down mortar bombs. Think a 40mm or larger weapon could shoot down a laser guided or dumb bomb at a fair distance.

how about the 57mm gun they are deploying now?

[gunnut]

The first problem I see with this system is that it will be stationary. Anything that doesn't move can be destroyed.

I'll lob half a dozen bombs at this system to saturate it. Half a dozen JDAMs are still cheaper than this system and the place it's protecting.

[Yukon65]

Well was thinking if it was mobile you could shoot at the bombs as they were coming in. If you have 100 of these gun systems around a target you could shoot down a lot of bombs even if they were stationary. Bombs do not manuever much and I do not think anyone has made them stealthy yet. Was wondering if current mobile AA guns could be programmed to take out bombs.

One of the problems I would see is that it might work on the first raid, but after that some one would go after the radars that guide the guns and how to protect those is another story. Think this idea would work on naval vessels though.

[jlvfr]

Like this?
Phalanx CIWS - Centurion_C-RAM

[USSWisconsin]

Like this?
Phalanx CIWS - Centurion_C-RAM

Drone exercise accidentOn February 10, 1983, USS Antrim (FFG-20) was conducting a live fire exercise off the east coast of the United States using the Phalanx against a target drone. Although the drone was successfully engaged at close range, the target debris bounced off the sea surface and struck the ship, causing significant damage and fire from the drone's residual fuel which killed a civilian instructor.[15][16]

just a tangent but wouldn't some more protection - like heavier shell plating and steel splinter armor on the super structure have made this kind of accident less likely? IMO, we are only talking about an inch or so of HY 100 armor, perhaps with a kevlar spall layer behind it in occupied spaces.

[jlvfr]

just a tangent but wouldn't some more protection - like heavier shell plating and steel splinter armor on the super structure have made this kind of accident less likely? IMO, we are only talking about an inch or so of HY 100 armor, perhaps with a kevlar spall layer behind it in occupied spaces.

How "close" was the kill? I remember reading, some years ago (sorry, can't find the source...) that one of the reasons the 20mm is disliked for CIWS (most other CIWS-developers use higher calibers) is it's dificulty in destroying an SSM far enough to prevent this. Not "hiting", but "destroying" it. The bigger, heavier 30mm and above (the italians use 76mm!) have far greater chances of destroying the SSM far enough to prevent such a shower of debris.

Imagine a CIWS on a CVN/LPH killing an SSM too close... and a spray of such debris sweeping the deck *shudders*

[gunnut]

just a tangent but wouldn't some more protection - like heavier shell plating and steel splinter armor on the super structure have made this kind of accident less likely? IMO, we are only talking about an inch or so of HY 100 armor, perhaps with a kevlar spall layer behind it in occupied spaces.

The Perrys are already top heavy with aluminum superstructure (I think it's aluminum). Adding more armor is seriously compromise the hull integrity. Rusty said the Perrys are 12 lb of potatoes in a 10 lb sack. Something will have to give.

[gunnut]

Well was thinking if it was mobile you could shoot at the bombs as they were coming in. If you have 100 of these gun systems around a target you could shoot down a lot of bombs even if they were stationary. Bombs do not manuever much and I do not think anyone has made them stealthy yet. Was wondering if current mobile AA guns could be programmed to take out bombs.

One of the problems I would see is that it might work on the first raid, but after that some one would go after the radars that guide the guns and how to protect those is another story. Think this idea would work on naval vessels though.

The only way not to get bombed is to control the skies. Otherwise I'll just keep lobbing bombs, in addition I'll use missiles in both terrain hugging mode and high approach vector to punch a hole in the defense. Remember, whatever you are protecting won't move like a ship. It will always be there. Whoever controls the skies will eventually kill it. Bombs are cheaper to build and deploy than anti air systems.

[USSWisconsin]

The Perrys are already top heavy with aluminum superstructure (I think it's aluminum). Adding more armor is seriously compromise the hull integrity. Rusty said the Perrys are 12 lb of potatoes in a 10 lb sack. Something will have to give.

Yes, I agree, and they aren't are going to upgrade them much anyway. I just hope the new ships, like the Arleigh Burkes and DDX, are able to take at least this type of damage without causalities - fragments from a target drone... oh boy.

[gunnut]

Yes, I agree, and they aren't are going to upgrade them much anyway. I just hope the new ships, like the Arleigh Burkes and DDX, are able to take at least this type of damage without causalities - fragments from a target drone... oh boy.

I don't know...LCSs aren't exactly heavy duty in construction. Do both designs have aluminum superstructure?

[JA Boomer]

I don't know...LCSs aren't exactly heavy duty in construction. Do both designs have aluminum superstructure?

Yes, and I think the Independence class uses an aluminum hull as well, yikes.

[Stitch]

Like this?
Phalanx CIWS - Centurion_C-RAM

Take that idea, and combine it with the GAU/8A Avenger cannon; a ground-mounted Goalkeeper!
Goalkeeper CIWS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Stitch]

Yes, and I think the Independence class uses an aluminum hull as well, yikes.

Yes, the LCS-2 class is an entirely aluminum-alloy seaframe.

[Yukon65]

To bring this back on topic I was thinking of using one of these to shoot down bombs Flakpanzer Gepard or one of these a 9K22 Tunguska to try to shoot down in coming bombs. Now the question is could the radar on one of these mobile units even lock up a incoming bomb.