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Thread: Libya updates

  1. #31
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    RSM,if the European powers involved in this mess can't be relied to send a few SF teams and 2 cargo planes with weapons than they deserve to negociate with the likes of Gaddafi&sons.
    They are going to be in an awkward position given the strong statements made a week back especially Cameron & Sarkozy.

    Russia, China, US futures looking better than the EU.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 11, at 17:16.

  2. #32
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    off-topic,but the sooner that crap goes away,the better for European nations.Also said Euro nations need a good beating to get their senses back.I sense ample opportunities in the near future and Libya may be the first one.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  3. #33
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    They are going to be in an awkward position given the strong statements made a week back especially Cameron & Sarkozy.
    And I pointed this out over a week ago.
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    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  4. #34
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    There's still time to act, not sure how long that window is though....a week more ?

    A week ago we were talking about that SAS team etc. not been any positive movement since.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
    I could not agree more , I have already stated Europe should deal with this and the UK needs to be at the front.
    A prickly problem here is that the bastard still has some amount of mustard gas. Those will have to be dealt with before he gets truly desperate.

    British forces ready to seize Libyan mustard gas weapons

    British forces ready to seize Libyan mustard gas weapons


    By Robert Winnett and Holly Watt, Daily Telegraph March 1, 2011



    * Story
    * Photos ( 1 )


    A man walks inside the burnt main prison of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's forces in Benghazi February 28, 2011. British forces are expected to uncover caches of chemical weapons stored in the collapsing North African country.

    A man walks inside the burnt main prison of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's forces in Benghazi February 28, 2011. British forces are expected to uncover caches of chemical weapons stored in the collapsing North African country.
    Photograph by: Suhaib Salem, Reuters

    British special forces are poised to seize caches of mustard gas and other potential chemical weapons being stored by Col. Moammar Gadhafi's regime in the Libyan desert.

    American sources have disclosed that the SAS is likely to be called upon to secure up to 10 tons of mustard gas and sarin that is believed to be stockpiled at three separate locations.

    Special forces are thought to have been in Libya for about 10 days and have already played a leading role in rescuing hundreds of oil workers.Tuesday, David Cameron continued to increase the pressure on Gadhafi by warning that Britain should negotiate with opposition groups. He said that, if the Libyan regime started "murdering" its people with aircraft, plans should be in place to "do something to stop that".

    It emerged that Typhoon fighter jets may be moved to an RAF base in Cyprus in the latest sign that military action could be necessary.

    However, a growing coalition of foreign governments publicly opposed the use of military force. The American government also played down the prospect, despite sources disclosing earlier this week that warships and planes were being moved into position around Libya.

    There is growing international concern over the stockpiles of chemical weapons that Gadhafi is thought to still retain, amid fears they could be used to attack protesters or be seized by terrorists.

    British sources said they were yet to receive a specific U.S. request for SAS involvement in any operation to secure the weapons sites, but officials said plans were being drawn up for "every eventuality".

    Sir John Major, the former prime minister, said that if Gadhafi used the chemical weapons it could trigger a military conflict.

    Asked if the use of chemical weapons would make a difference to the military's approach, Sir John said: "I think it would, and I think it should. I recall going out to visit the troops just before the first Gulf War. From the youngest to the most senior commander the one area that was of great concern was that Saddam Hussein would use chemical weapons.

    "He didn't. I think he understood that the world would descend upon him in the most terrible way if he did. And I very much hope that the same point will apply to Colonel Gadhafi in Libya."

    Cameron used a press conference to speak out against the regime. "It's right for us to plan and look at plans for a no-fly zone," he said. "We should also be making contact, getting a greater understanding of the opposition forces that are now in Benghazi and in control of quite a lot of the country. I don't think we should go beyond that for now."

    Saif Gadhafi, the dictator's son and heir apparent, attacked Cameron and accused him of "thinking greedily about oil". He said the Prime Minister "wants to be a hero" and denied that Libyans were interested in regime change.

    Tuesday, any Britons still in Libya were urged to make their way to Benghazi to board a Royal Navy destroyer on its way to the port.

    European Union leaders are to meet for an extraordinary summit on March 11 to seek a response to the crisis, and to the turmoil in the wider Arab world.

    ?Hillary Clinton, U.S. Secretary of State, said Tuesday night that the Obama administration may seek the prosecution of Gadhafi for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

    The announcement follows claims last week by Gadhafi's former justice minister that the Libyan leader had personally authorized the bombing of Pan Am flight 103, which killed 270 people.
    © Copyright (c) The Daily Telegraph



    Read more: British forces ready to seize Libyan mustard gas weapons

  6. #36
    In Memoriam Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
    I could not agree more , I have already stated Europe should deal with this and the UK needs to be at the front.
    As long as we keep the SBS under lock and key. Leave it to the real pros.. the SAS

  7. #37
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Sir,usual service rivalry aside,it looks that others higher in the chain managed to cause the fiasco last week.Now,I don't know if the team could have refused the mission given the parameters they had to consider.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  8. #38
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The council has its own webpage now

    The Interim Transitional National Council

  9. #39
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave lukins View Post
    As long as we keep the SBS under lock and key. Leave it to the real pros.. the SAS
    Bit like fish out of water

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Sir,usual service rivalry aside,it looks that others higher in the chain managed to cause the fiasco last week.Now,I don't know if the team could have refused the mission given the parameters they had to consider.
    Just that Mihais mate, nothing more, and the classic black humour that all us who have served know we could not do without ........ I still have my reservations about that whole fiasco, what really went on.
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  10. #40
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The council has its own webpage now

    The Interim Transitional National Council
    Good job DE................
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  11. #41
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
    I still have my reservations about that whole fiasco, what really went on.
    How's this grab ya as an alternative version to the cover story we got fed.

    The boys insert discretely and successfuly, try to make contact with the rebels, meet with hostile contact instead, defend themsleves, leg it back to the RVP and take off in the helo. They never spent 2 days in custody.

    The ambassador has some 'splaining to do to the rebels.

    Does not explain the intercept played on libyan state tv though.

    What can i say, its a work in progress
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Mar 11, at 23:06.

  12. #42
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How's this grab ya as an alternative version to the cover story we got fed.

    The boys insert discretely and successfuly, try to make contact with the rebels, meet with hostile contact instead, defend themsleves, leg it back to the RVP and take off in the helo. They never spent 2 days in custody.

    The ambassador has some 'splaining to do to the rebels.

    Does not explain the intercept played on libyan state tv though.

    What can i say, its a work in progress
    Good effort DE.......speculation ..along with assumption is the mother of all F*ck ups
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  13. #43
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    This continues to get better and better...

    The Times -
    SAS bunglers had secret computer codes in pockets

    Rebels accessed secure 'for UK eyes only' MoD computers using codes on scraps of paper from the bungled MI6/SAS operation in Libya

    The SAS is facing a serious security breach after Libyan rebels discovered that soldiers captured during a bungled operation were carrying on scraps of paper the usernames and passwords for secret computer systems.

    Sources in Benghazi, the largest Libyan city in opposition control, told The Sunday Times last week that they had seized a store of sensitive communications equipment when the MI6 and SAS mission went wrong nine days ago.

    The rebels found personal details needed to access the computers on notes among their captives’ belongings.

    “It is so inept, it is unbelievable,” one expert said.

    The rebels tapped the usernames and passwords into the confiscated computers. One system opened with a screen that read “Sunata deployed”. It appeared to be a program for accessing a secure military network. A rebel source said: “It takes you right into the MoD system in the UK.”

    Asked whether the rebels had accessed the system, he said: “Yes we did. We were, of course, curious. But as a courtesy to the UK we will not divulge all, but just enough to let them know that we know. It’s a good thing this hasn’t fallen into enemy hands.”

    The rebels said much of the equipment was marked “Secret: UK eyes only.” One rebel with military experience said: “Some of the communications systems they carried is the stuff that you only see in the movies.” He described it as “espionage equipment”.

    The haul included five laptop computers, six GPS trackers, two “Bgans” — said to be “broadband global area network” systems, eight satellite telephones and shortwave radios, plus lithium batteries and solar panels for recharging.

    The Libyans seized maps marking “Suluk” as a landing location in red and “Gaminis” as an extraction point in yellow; passports, including three from different countries in the name of one man; and a fistful of credit cards, mostly from Barclays.

    Components for explosives, “portable welding machines”, office equipment and five guns were also taken.

    A source confirmed that two sophisticated communications systems had been seized. The source claimed this did not leave MI6’s systems vulnerable, and that the captured MI6 computer was “clean”. The Ministry of Defence denied that its main network could be accessed.

    However, senior MoD sources could give no assurances about systems used by the directorate of special forces. The captured SAS computers are understood to hold confidential documents.

    The Sunday Times has also learnt that the MI6/SAS group was released only after the Foreign Office faxed a plaintive letter to the rebels, requesting “all the usual courtesies” for the captured “diplomatic mission”.

    Last week one US newspaper mocked the debacle as “Britain’s excellent Libyan adventure”. William Hague, the foreign secretary, remains under fire and David Cameron is said to be privately furious. The National Security Council is to report on what went wrong.

    The mission was mounted as ministers struggled to formulate a clear policy on the uprising in Libya. Amid talk of imposing a no-fly zone, they wanted to forge links with the emerging leaders of the opposition to Muammar Gadaffi, the Libyan dictator.

    Hague was in telephone contact with Abdul Fattah Younis, a former Libyan minister who has defected from Gadaffi’s regime. However, the regime still has control of telecommunications and can intercept calls and cut off networks.

    A plan was drawn up to send an MI6 mission into Libya, with Sir John Sawers, the head of the service, and Hague being fully briefed on the details. Hague is said to show an especially close interest in MI6’s work and to have approved dozens of secret missions. He says he alerted Libyan rebels to the plans.

    The mission’s objective, according to government sources, was to establish secure communications with the rebels and scout out a base in Benghazi for British diplomats. At its core was a young MI6 officer who is a specialist in the Middle East. A Cambridge graduate, he joined the Secret Intelligence Service, as MI6 is known, in 2001, underwent language training in Cairo and served in Iraq.

    The officer and two other men were accompanied by five SAS soldiers. Judging by airline boarding passes also seized among their belongings, at least one of the team began the mission by travelling from Cairo to Frankfurt and on to Milan.

    The group is believed to have flown from Malta to Crete, where the US has a substantial airbase at Souda Bay, probably to disguise their intentions. Two special forces Chinook helicopters, equipped with sophisticated navigation systems for low-level night flying, then set off for Libya, probably refuelling en route on the Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel Argus.

    One Chinook carried the team, dressed in black civilian clothes and armed with what were described as five small machineguns; the other was “in the background, hanging around”, in case of trouble.

    Why was such a clandestine route chosen? Why did the men not simply cross the border from Egypt or sail into Benghazi? Critics suggest MI6 favours the cloak-and-dagger approach. And the SAS, according to Patrick Mercer, the Conservative MP who served as a colonel in the army, has developed a tendency when planning operations “not to forget the film rights”.

    On the other hand, a government source said the route had been chosen because the team was carrying sensitive communication equipment that it could not risk being discovered at any border crossings.

    Either way, at 3am on Friday March 4, a Chinook landed near Suluk, a town about 30 miles south of Benghazi. Its target was a farmhouse where Thomas Smith, an honorary consul from the British embassy in Tripoli, had reportedly been working as an administrator for five months.

    The area is rural and locals became suspicious when Smith was seen leaving the farm compound at an unusual hour. Helicopters were heard and two cars arrived filled with men in dark clothing who began unloading equipment. Farmers feared the interlopers were mercenaries hired by Gadaffi. They let the men enter the farmhouse, then surrounded it with machineguns.

    The members of MI6/SAS team faced a dilemma. If they fought or summoned help from a rescue team based in Malta, it would cause uproar. Their aim was to generate good relations, not bloodshed.

    Rebel sources say some shots were fired. British sources say the team was simply roughed up, with one man suffering a minor injury. What is clear is that soon after landing, the entire team was captive and bound with plastic cuffs.

    Ahmed Albira, a farm manager, telephoned rebel headquarters in Benghazi, which told him to keep the men under guard until forces arrived and took them to the city.

    “Of course they were roughed up at the beginning,” said a rebel source, who claimed the men initially refused to identify themselves. “For all we know, they were mercenaries hired by Gadaffi.”

    The rebels found personal details needed to access the computers on notes among their captives’ belongings.
    Torture it out of them I can believe.

    “It is so inept, it is unbelievable,” one expert said.
    Based on whats written if true, I can only agree, inept is not the word I would use.

    Asked whether the rebels had accessed the system, he said: “Yes we did. We were, of course, curious.


    But as a courtesy to the UK we will not divulge all, but just enough to let them know that we know. It’s a good thing this hasn’t fallen into enemy hands.”
    Hilarious.

    One rebel with military experience said: “Some of the communications systems they carried is the stuff that you only see in the movies.” He described it as “espionage equipment”.
    ooooooooooooh

    Rebel sources say some shots were fired. British sources say the team was simply roughed up, with one man suffering a minor injury. What is clear is that soon after landing, the entire team was captive and bound with plastic cuffs.
    Ahmed Albira, a farm manager, telephoned rebel headquarters in Benghazi, which told him to keep the men under guard until forces arrived and took them to the city.
    I fell down laughing here, a f*ecking farmer

    “Of course they were roughed up at the beginning,” said a rebel source, who claimed the men initially refused to identify themselves. “For all we know, they were mercenaries hired by Gadaffi.”
    And when I got up and read this .....I fell down laughing again........the Monty Python team wrote this !!!!!!!
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  14. #44
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
    speculation ..along with assumption is the mother of all F*ck ups
    I'll take that as your summation, in a line, of this whole affair.

    Good article btw, does not leave much to the imagination.

    On the bright side, these rebels uncoordinated as they might seem are alert enough, brave enough, determined enough to have successfully captured a section of the SAS. Now, i don't think Benghazi is going to fall within a week

    Gaddafi will not be able to take Benghazi with just aircraft & artillery. He's going to have go street by street, house to house. There's still a lot of fight left in these people.

  15. #45
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    The story seems to be a recycled version of the ''farmer forces down Apache with a rifle'' of Iraqi fame.First of all,the sources are in Benghazi.For all I know,the vaunted media is nothing but the voice for the dreams of whatever Libyan hero wannabee.

    I call BS on that one until better intel becomes available.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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