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  • #16
    I can't believe migs were used, the reports of entire units defecting might be true after all...

    However, Gaddafi can definitely wage a civil war by maintaining his base in the West while this uprising is based mainly in the East. This sounds increasingly bad...
    Everybody sing this song, DooDah, DooDah

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    • #17
      Originally posted by random_reader View Post
      I can't believe migs were used, the reports of entire units defecting might be true after all...

      .
      I just watched it in the BBC mate .


      VALLETTA (Reuters) - Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said.

      They said the two pilots, both colonels, took off from a base near Tripoli. One of them has requested political asylum. ;)
      Last edited by tankie; 21 Feb 11,, 20:44.

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      • #18
        I heard reports this morning on the World Service troops/air force loyal to Gaddafi have already started to gather in the west?
        sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

        Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tankie View Post
          I just watched it in the BBC mate .
          ?

          I believe you. It's an expression to show shock though you accept it.

          Uhh, culture clash? lol.
          Everybody sing this song, DooDah, DooDah

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          • #20
            Originally posted by random_reader View Post
            ?

            I believe you. It's an expression to show shock though you accept it.

            Uhh, culture clash? lol.
            Gotchya

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
              Gaddafi loses grip, flees capital


              Anyone else find it interesting this is a series of very African uprisings? There's lots of talk about Iran, Bahrain et al but all these are happening in the African states of the Caliphate, not the Arabian or Persian ones.
              Parihaka,

              Talk about and attention to the Gulf States will be quashed or redirected. Look at the demographics: there is one Hell of a bomb ticking there and Riyadh, Washington, Tel Aviv and their allied tyrants clearly have a looming problem.

              Regards,

              William
              Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                Anyone else find it interesting this is a series of very African uprisings? There's lots of talk about Iran, Bahrain et al but all these are happening in the African states of the Caliphate, not the Arabian or Persian ones.
                Bahrain has a 70% Shia population ruled by a minority Sunni leader who filled his parliament with his clan. There's potential for things to go up there. However what stunned me was the Crown Prince's interview a cpl of days back.

                Ppl protested in Pearl square, then the cops moved in and shot a few people, then the crown prince pulled all the cops out and allowed the ppl back to protest in the square. He said we've never done this before in Bahraini history -- shoot our own. He seemed very accomodating. The ppl there in any case weren't agitiating to remove the leader they just wanted better conditions.

                The gulf states bribe their citizens, the Bahrani's tried it but it did not work. The North african countries hold their ppl back with more repression. In Libya we're seeing the strongest reaction to date. The army's never deserted like this in the other arab countries. It looks like it will be messy, no foreign reporters allowed in.

                In 2009, the Iranians were looking to be the source for inspiration, less than two years later, the Arabs are returning the favour :)

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                • #23
                  If Qaddafi can't count on his military, that makes me wonder what hope the ayatollahs have.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                    If Qaddafi can't count on his military, that makes me wonder what hope the ayatollahs have.

                    The Ayatollahs don't rely on their military, as was demonstrated last year. They rely on the Baseej & the Revolutionary Guards (plus a large supporter base in rural areas). They are a little more like the SS & SA than they are Wehrmacht (to use a more familiar comparison). As long as these two groups share the same vision of the Islamic Revolution as the Ayatollahs they are safe enough.

                    The sitiuation in Libya is unclear & I'm not sure whose opinions to believe. I saw an exile interviewed today who claimed that Gaddafi hasn't relied on the professional military to keep him in power so much as militias & other security forces. Indeed, you may have heard reference to 'African Mercenaries' bing used to kill demostrators. Apparently they are former members of militias in places like Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone etc. Gaddafi supported factions in a number of African wars. When those wars ended he employed some of those former militiamen (some of whom he previously armed & trained) as a further support to his regime.

                    Elements in the military may not be as loyal as we might expect - clearly some are refusing to fire on their own people. That doesn't mean Gaddafi will fall. he may not need all the military to support him, just enough. If, however, soldiers keep refusing to fire & then turn their guns on his militias he may indeed be sunk. Unlike Mubarak (and much closer to the ayatollahs), this guy is prepared to kill a lot of people. That makes him a lot harder to remove.
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                    • #25
                      Apparently, it's a question of clan warfare in Libya which does not exist in the other Arab countries.

                      Gaddafi's son makes a strong case to retake the country in his speech to the country, saying everyone is armed now and if we don't fight the country will break up into small islamic emirates and then the americans will invade. There will be rivers of blood and bread will become as expensive as gold.

                      Unless of course, the ppl relent and allow order to be restored ;)

                      Part 1
                      Part 2
                      Part 3

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                      • #26
                        You reminded me DE. This Libyan exile did mention that Gaddafi relied heavily on his own clan for muscle to support him.
                        sigpic

                        Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                        • #27
                          Libya's Indian envoy quits
                          Libya

                          It doesn't amounts to much but it shows there is disquiet in government machinery
                          Keyboard is mightier than gun

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by devgupt View Post
                            Libya's Indian envoy quits
                            Libya

                            It doesn't amounts to much but it shows there is disquiet in government machinery
                            Not just India Devgupt. Their UN Ambassador declared the government's action 'crimes against humanity, crimes of war'. In Australia diplomats met protesters & declared they supported the 'will of the Libyan people'. I believe other diplomats elsewhere have done the same. Makes you wonder what they are hearing from home.
                            sigpic

                            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tankie View Post
                              2 Libyan mig pilots have flown their fighters to Malta after they refused to bomb civilians .Good for them .
                              I was headed to Uni this morning, heard The Clash's Rock the Casbah and was surprised at how relevant one of the verses was:

                              The king called up his jet fighters
                              He said you better earn your pay
                              Drop your bombs between the minarets
                              Down the Casbah way

                              As soon as the shareef was
                              Chauffeured outta there
                              The jet pilots tuned to
                              The cockpit radio blare

                              As soon as the shareef was
                              Outta their hair
                              The jet pilots wailed
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                              • #30
                                Gaddafi: I'm still in Libya, wanted to go to Green square yesterday and make a speech but it started raining. Don't believe those 'dogs' in the media

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