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Thread: IBM Watson on Jeopardy!

  1. #31
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Fog:

    You lost me at SUSE...but for some reason when I read your post really fast, I get your point. But the question is, will computers ever be able to replicate the associative tangle of the human mind? Or is that the right question?
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  2. #32
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    IMO, the value of Watson lies in it's simplistic mission. Here is a machine that can take tangled human language, loaded with puns, delivered backwards, and more often than not, provides the desired information. Think of it as the ultimate Google search. Ask it a question, it provides an answer. Wasn't that the original premise behind computers?

    "Watson, what angle should I fire a M155 howitzer so as to impact that target? Temperature is 22 C RH 85%"
    "Precisely 55.32 degrees."

    It is also a step towards 2001's HAL9000, minus the sentience. It could accept voice commands and execute ship functions reliably.

    I find it to be fairly impressive.


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    You lost me at SUSE...
    Awww... But I like SUSE. Novell does a very good job with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    But the question is, will computers ever be able to replicate the associative tangle of the human mind?
    No, but as this demonstrates you can fake it by storing all available relevant knowledge and then having a buffer four times as large as the storage and putting a stupidly massive machine to the task with a power bill listed in the high MW*h.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    IMO, the value of Watson lies in it's simplistic mission. Here is a machine that can take tangled human language, loaded with puns, delivered backwards, and more often than not, provides the desired information. Think of it as the ultimate Google search.
    IBM says as much.

    Given a search engine user wants something a little more in depth then a "What is [insert parameter with highest confidence rating based on massive parallel polling]?" response to a glib one liner, Watson doesn't prove either the technology is mature or viable with a 10 million dollar >100TeraFLOP supercomputer when you start opening things up more. All while Watson is powerful enough to still land in the Top 500 Supercomputers, just for a single user front end?

    I mean really what's the poor supercomputer supposed to do with the various bizarre porn requests that are reported to make up the bulk of search engine loads? Or the inevitable fashion advice questions? Or who has the best *insert product/service here*? And why would that be better then finally being able to search pictures for similar characters and/or source medium instead of being constrained to text input?

    If it's incorporated in the near future, provided Google doesn't decide it wants to run one of the world's top 10 supercomputers just for it's search front end, I'd suspect it'd be a lot more limited. Having Cray or IBM make them a top end supercomputer just for _that_ seems a questionable ROI proposition, and even that might not be enough given how many users would be asking for very different things involving massive parallel processing of the entire internet every second. The bandwidth associated bills alone would be monstrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Ask it a question, it provides an answer. Wasn't that the original premise behind computers?
    No, it's a Comput[at]er for automating sophisticated computations, versus a Calculator to calculate simple math, or control systems to automate processes. Database managements and report generation, ala what businesses still need big machines for, is closer to those lines. Granted Watson is basically just database management and report generation taken to some rather excessive parallel processing extremes.

    Personal Computers more or less took off because they allowed [insert department that's not IT here] to avoid the "Can you modify the database to create a report to do X?" problem through spreadsheets like the early VisiCalc. Home computers, which Commodore was the poster child, well the commercial speaks for itself. Computer having encyclopedias didn't really happen until the CD era and Wikipedia wasn't founded until 2001.

    Now television shows and various media loved to have the Computer be used as story telling device that reveals information to the crew and audience, but stories are for entertainment and Liberal Arts majors aren't Engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    "Watson, what angle should I fire a M155 howitzer so as to impact that target? Temperature is 22 C RH 85%"
    "Precisely 55.32 degrees."
    That particular trick was done in the 1940s, with relay logic that dreamed of having the responsiveness and compaction of vacuum tube triodes and they even made it autotrack via radar and practical enough to coordinate all the guns on a Destroyer in the pursuit of that. Why would you want to spend >=10 Million USD so you could compensate for vocal quirks when you could spend a lot less for even a very fancy system that does the same exact task but with guided input?

    Just because you can scale a computer up doesn't mean it is practical or useful to do so.
    Last edited by FOG3; 11 Mar 11, at 20:39.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Fog:

    You lost me at SUSE...but for some reason when I read your post really fast, I get your point. But the question is, will computers ever be able to replicate the associative tangle of the human mind? Or is that the right question?
    SUSE is a linux distro for those who don't have teh patience too use debian. *Rage*
    Nah but I run it. For that reason. Along with bt4.
    DistroWatch.com: openSUSE
    Last edited by Porsche917LH; 11 Mar 11, at 22:28.

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    Patron indus creed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    Fog:

    You lost me at SUSE...but for some reason when I read your post really fast, I get your point. But the question is, will computers ever be able to replicate the associative tangle of the human mind? Or is that the right question?


    "Computers are useless, they can only give you answers".
    -Pablo Picasso-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche917LH View Post
    SUSE is a linux distro for those who don't have teh patience too use debian. *Rage*
    The traditional options are Novell SUSE, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, or the Supercomputer builder's OS build ala IBM's AIX or Cray Linux Environment. Since when does Debian have any relevance there, and why would you hold that up as the distro for those with patience/skill verse Slackware? Indeed why is the largest Linux company, Red Hat, not mentioned at all in favor Novell and... Debian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche917LH View Post
    Nah but I run [OpenSUSE]. For that reason. Along with [BackTrack v4 aka Penetration Testing and Security Auditing Distribution].
    If you want a desktop Linux distro you don't have to fuss at you have OpenSuse, Mandriva Free, and PCLinuxOS. If you're bold enough to read a manual and are interested in getting in the spirit of it however nothing beats Slackware as it is the most purebred.

    OpenSuse is nice for for having a decent equivalent to the Windows Control Panel and having a greater focus on stability, while still being relatively cutting edge, versus Fedora aka the basis of the OLPC OS.

    Debian is an old guy whose main game these days seems to have been stripped down to more precompiled binary packages then thou, and inane comments about the betterness of their automatic package manager the various rpm users usually casually slap down with no answer from the Debs to .rpms offering delta-rpms and hence only needing to download changes instead of replacing packages wholesale. The almost purely syncophant tone of their comments regarding distro releases on LinuxQuestions.org doesn't really help, particularly as you don't see that madness anywhere else outside of a Mac event. A rather ignomious end for a distro that started out being big on the ideals of the Free Software Foundation.

    Note for the average observer:
    Free in this context means Free as in Freedom, not Free as in Beer and in part relates to closed source going against the natural state and practices of programmers. This movement started in the 80s, and the related GNU community had everything reasonably together, if possessing a rather big problem with morale, except a kernel, aka Operating System core. Linus Torvalds provided the kernel he started as a hobby projects and still runs that aspect of things, and has a computer law named after him aka Linus' Law. You'll often see the OS listed as GNU/Linux to represent the fusion of the two versus say Google/Linux=Android.
    Last edited by FOG3; 12 Mar 11, at 09:34.

  7. #37
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indus creed View Post
    "Computers are useless, they can only give you answers".
    -Pablo Picasso-

    Pablo is long gone and was none too perceptive in his day. Strange for an artist not to imagine the potential; artists are usually ahead of their time.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  8. #38
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    Debian is every major linux distro's father. (exaggeration but still kind of true) Yast is pretty nice to have though. Add in wine and you've got something better than windows. Fedora I never liked. Never liked Ubuntu because of canonical & dumping Gnome in favor of some stupid new environment.

  9. #39
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    What is the major advantage to the user of linnux and how does it compare in terms of operation to Windows? I've

    been tempted to try it out.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  10. #40
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    What is the major advantage to the user of linnux and how does it compare in terms of operation to Windows? I've

    been tempted to try it out.
    Relative freedom from viruses, OS stability and software cost are the primary advantages as I see them, its worth a try and will work on an older weaker machine - its worth a try, but keep your Windows pc unchanged, I dont recommend making your primary machine dual boot. Get confident with linux before you make a total switch, use windows as a backup.
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 13 Mar 11, at 12:32.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    but keep your Windows pc unchanged, I dont recommend making your primary machine dual boot.
    Really? Why is that? I've been considering doing that at some point.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

  12. #42
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Really? Why is that? I've been considering doing that at some point.
    Its an IT thing, always have a good working backup. Once Linux is working well and you are confident of your ability to use it and recover it, then the backups can revert to data only, with a good system image to speed reovery. Also there are many games that aren't ported to Linux, most mainstream software is available in a Linux version. The two (Windows and Linux) can potentially interfer with each other on the same system - by controlling the file systems differently - if a person were an expert, the two could be effectively isolated, but for an average user, this is not as simple as two separate machines, thumb drives or networks make transfering data pretty easy. If there is no Linux app available for something you do regularly - you might need to use Windows to convert your files to another format so you can use a Linux app to edit or read them.
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 13 Mar 11, at 19:31.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
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  13. #43
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    Relative freedom from viruses, OS stability and software cost are the primary advantages as I see them, its worth a try and will work on an older weaker machine - its worth a try, but keep your Windows pc unchanged, I dont recommend making your primary machine dual boot. Get confident with linux before you make a total switch, use windows as a backup.
    Thanks for the lowdown. I have just finished a clean install of Windows 7 (not an upgrade-replaced XP) and have had enough of OS installs for now. XP was a jewel; have no complaints about 7 so far.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  14. #44
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Now take this with a pinch of salt as I am far from anything resembling an expert, my job is interpreting/analysing what I see on a screen and recieve audibly over the radio's anything that goes on behind the screen it is the job of "our back room boys".... But to get to the point the system I work with 'AWES" is a linux based system.
    I agree with all thats been said , about its reliability, stability and everything else, but it is definately not user friendly IMO, well for a neanderthal such as me, anyway after 7 years I am somewhat able to get through a mission without having to scream "help" .
    For home use and general day to day I would not even consider it personally, but thats me........ was really happy with xp... threw vista out and right now using 7 and very happy with it.

    Here endeth the laymans input
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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    The environment, capability, usability, and stability vary vastly from distro to distro. I still use 7 as my primary os on my fastest machine because it runs games smoother than in a windows emulator in linux. (not like I do much gaming though)
    Even my mom can use Ubuntu, Mint, or open SUSE. That's saying a lot as to the usability.
    On the other hand some distros lack a GUI for a lot of functions (of course you could write one) that makes life a little frustrating.

    If you get into the open source issues that's interesting too.

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