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  • Clashes erupt amid Cairo protests

    I just don't see why Mubarak continues holding on. From what I can see, his position is completely untenable. He is looking to buy himself time - it was apparent that he wishes to put his son in power.
    Clashes erupt amid Cairo protests

    There have been fierce clashes in the Egyptian capital between supporters of President Hosni Mubarak and protesters calling on him to resign immediately.

    Officials say a member of the security forces was killed and more than 600 people wounded in pitched battles in and around Cairo's Tahrir Square.

    Gunshots have been heard in the area.

    Earlier, the army urged people to go home following nine days of protests that led Mr Mubarak to vow not to stand for re-election in September.

    The violence comes after more than a week of opposition demonstrations that have left about 300 people dead, according to UN estimates.
    Counter-protests

    Up to 2,000 anti-Mubarak demonstrators had spent Tuesday night in Tahrir Square, the main focus of the protests, saying the president's pledge was insufficient and chanting: "We will not leave!"

    On Wednesday, thousands of supporters of President Mubarak arrived in buses and surged into the square, dismantling barricades.

    "Let the man (Mubarak) take care of you until his time is up," Mohamed Shafik, 51, told Reuters news agency. "Mubarak wants stability and we want stability as well."

    One anti-government protester told the BBC that pro-Mubarak activists had initiated the violence.

    "They started throwing stones at us," the man, named as Zaccaria, said. "Then some of us started throwing stones at them and then we chased them out of the square. They returned once again with the horses and the whips and the thugs."

    Opposition supporters say many in the pro-government camp were paid by the authorities to demonstrate, and allowed into the square by the troops surrounding it.

    Repeated bursts of gunfire have been heard. Some reports say troops fired warning shots to disperse the crowds.

    Ibrahim Zadran, co-ordinator of the opposition National Association for Change, told the BBC that some pro-government activists had used firearms and shot 15 protesters.

    BBC Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen, who has been to Tahrir Square, said he had seen people with nasty wounds.

    Egyptian Health Minister Ahmed Sameh Farid told the Associated Press news agency that the dead man was a member of the security forces who fell off a bridge.

    As darkness fell, people were seen throwing rocks and petrol bombs from rooftops on to the protesters below.

    The clashes later died down, although there were petrol bomb incidents into the night. Many anti-government protesters remain in Tahrir Square.

    The BBC's Yolande Knell in Cairo says the situation remains tense there as fires continue to burn outside the museum building.
    International reactions

    Clashes between the rival groups were also reported in Egypt's second city, Alexandria.

    Late on Wednesday Vice-President Omar Suleiman urged "all citizens to return to their homes and abide by the curfew".

    The violence drew condemnation from British Prime Minister David Cameron.

    "If it turns out that the regime in any way has sponsored or tolerated this violence, that is completely unacceptable," he said after meeting UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in London.

    Mr Ban said: "Any attack against the peaceful demonstrators is unacceptable and I strongly condemn it."

    In Washington, the state department reiterated a call for all sides to show restraint.

    In its earlier statement, Egypt's army called for demonstrators to return to their homes.

    "Your message has arrived, your demands became known... you are capable of bringing normal life to Egypt," said a spokesman in a message broadcast on state television.

    In a speech on Tuesday night Mr Mubarak - who has been in office for nearly 30 years - promised to leave at the next polls and pledged constitutional reform.

    He said he would devote his remaining time in power to ensuring a peaceful transition.

    US President Barack Obama responded by saying an orderly transition "must begin now".

    Opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei dismissed Mr Mubarak's move as "a trick" to stay in power, and Tahrir Square protesters have vowed to continue their demonstrations until Mr Mubarak quits.

    Abdelhalim Kandil, leader of Egypt's Kifaya (Enough) opposition movement, said Mr Mubarak's offer not to serve a sixth term was not enough.

    "I will tell you very simply that there is an unprecedented popular movement that rejects the presence of the president on a scope that has not been seen before, that is calling for the will of the people to be imposed," he said.

    If Mr Mubarak does not step down, demonstrators have planned to march on the presidential palace.

    Meanwhile, internet services were returning to the country, having been cut off for days by the government.
    Source: BBC News
    BBC News - Egypt unrest: Hundreds wounded in Cairo's Tahrir Square
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    I just don't see why Mubarak continues holding on. From what I can see, his position is completely untenable. He is looking to buy himself time - it was apparent that he wishes to put his son in power.
    Not sure if Gamal is stupid enough to except that position. At the moment he is safely holed up in London watching from afar.

    Comment


    • #3
      Update.

      One thing I'm finding interesting is the fact that Egypt is paying/forcing people who work in government enterprises to demonstrate -- given the fact that many of these people also want Mubarak out, did he think the world wouldn't get out? That it would be kept a secret? That the Egyptian people and the international community wouldn't see through it?

      'Paid to demonstrate'

      Wednesday's violence began when thousands of supporters of President Mubarak surged into the square.

      One anti-government protester told the BBC that the pro-Mubarak activists had initiated the fighting.

      "They started throwing stones at us," the man, named as Zaccaria, said. "Then some of us started throwing stones at them and then we chased them out of the square. They returned once again with the horses and the whips and the thugs."

      Opposition supporters say many in the pro-government camp were paid by the authorities to demonstrate, and allowed into the square by the troops surrounding it.

      The two sides pelted each other with stones in running battles lasting for hours.

      Egyptian troops refused to intervene, but fired into the air to try to disperse people.

      Egyptian Health Minister Ahmed Sameh Farid told the Associated Press news agency a member of the security forces died when he fell off a bridge.

      Two other people died from unspecified wounds in hospital, he added. It was not clear whether they were critics or supporters of Mr Mubarak.

      Clashes between the rival groups were also reported in Egypt's second city, Alexandria.
      Source: BBC News
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12351831
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        I just don't see why Mubarak continues holding on. From what I can see, his position is completely untenable. He is looking to buy himself time - it was apparent that he wishes to put his son in power.
        I think this is the problem with every long term dictator, there are fundamental changes to the chemical balance of their brain, they start to have delusions, they actually believe to the very core of their soul that the iron fist is good for their nation, that without them their nation will fall away, and when confronted with reality they start turning paranoid blaming everyone around them, a bit like kim jong il, Hilter, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the rest of them basterds who make me sometimes question things like the courage needed to bring in a child into this world.

        I will not be surprised if Mubarak still believes that this is just a passing riot, one he can control.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kuku View Post
          I think this is the problem with every long term dictator, there are fundamental changes to the chemical balance of their brain, they start to have delusions, they actually believe to the very core of their soul that the iron fist is good for their nation, that without them their nation will fall away, and when confronted with reality they start turning paranoid blaming everyone around them, a bit like kim jong il, Hilter, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and the rest of them basterds who make me sometimes question things like the courage needed to bring in a child into this world.

          I will not be surprised if Mubarak still believes that this is just a passing riot, one he can control.
          I think you are correct. Some leaders truly believe that the country will collapse if they are not at the helm. There is nobody but them that can hold sway to the running of the country. The World will not except anybody but them and they alone. All policy and power comes, and is given by him. He has deluded himself into thinking that if he says a few words on radio/TV things will be ok and all will return to normal and the sins of yesterday will be forgotten. Mugabe would make a good bed fellow for him.

          Comment


          • #6
            recent developments indicate disgraceful behaviour by the government, they could have chosen a different approach, instead they have taken measures such as those illustrated in the below article, sinister undertones indeed, and perhaps Kuku is right regarding the delusions of Mubarak, or maybe he feels if he steps down now thatit would be admitting that he in the wrong, a end to his legacy that he doesnt want

            Earlier PM Ahmed Shafiq apologised for the fighting, which killed nine and wounded hundreds.

            He pledged to investigate the violence, calling it a "disaster".
            Separately, there were reports of attacks on foreign journalists, with Mubarak supporters storming a number of Cairo hotels.

            Egypt's Health Minister Ahmed Samih Farid said that eight people had died in the fighting, which began on Wednesday, and 890 were injured, nine of them critically - mostly as the result of stone-throwing and attacks with metal rods and sticks. Petrol bombs have also been thrown
            The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo cites a retired general who has been speaking to tank crews on the square as saying the army is losing patience, and if firing continues from pro-government supporters, it is willing to fire on them.

            Those attacking them appear to be either police who have taken off their uniforms or plain-clothes "thugs", our correspondent says.

            Meanwhile mobile phone firm Vodafone said the authorities had used its network to send pro-government messages.

            The military leadership seems deeply uncomfortable with what is happening, adds our correspondent; they do not want to turn on protesters but they are not willing to defy the president either
            And in another statement, the state department condemned what it described as a "concerted campaign to intimidate international journalists in Cairo".

            If Mr Mubarak does not step down, demonstrators have planned to march on the presidential palace on Friday
            full article
            BBC News - Egypt unrest: Anti-Mubarak protesters fight back

            Comment


            • #7
              Looks like the democratic movement in Egypt is getting ready for a final push. Let's see if Mubarak sees the writing on the wall:
              Egypt set for 'Day of Departure'

              Protesters in the Egyptian capital Cairo are preparing to stage a "Day of Departure" for President Hosni Mubarak.

              Organisers are calling for tens of thousands of people to gather in Tahrir Square, after days of unrest have led to hundreds of casualties.

              Mr Mubarak is under increasing pressure to resign, with the US now calling for an immediate transition of power.

              He says such a move would leave Egypt in chaos, but has admitted he is "fed up" with being in power.

              In his first interview since anti-government protests began, he told ABC News he would like to resign immediately.

              But he repeated his long-held assertion that the country's Islamist opposition - the Muslim Brotherhood - would fill the power vacuum left by his absence.

              The protest organisers are demanding that he leave immediately and have said they plan to march on the presidential palace on Friday.

              They have been angered further by the emergence in recent days of pro-Mubarak gangs - many suspected to be plain clothes police - who have attacked anti-government protesters.

              The protesters have called for tens of thousands of people to gather in the capital after Friday prayers to put the "last nail in the regime's coffin".

              Correspondents say there is now a far greater military presence in Tahrir Square.

              Egypt's health ministry says eight people have been killed and more than 800 injured in the clashes, but the UN estimates that more than 300 people have died since the unrest broke out on 25 January, with about 4,000 hurt.

              'Meaningful transition'

              Egypt's Vice-President Omar Suleiman has appealed for calm and urged the protesters to accept Mr Mubarak's pledge that he will not stand for election again.

              But it has now emerged that the White House has been in talks with Mr Suleiman about how Egypt can begin making a "meaningful transition" to a democratic government that addresses the aspirations of the Egyptian people.

              US Vice-President Joe Biden spoke to his Egyptian counterpart on Thursday, say diplomats, a day after Mr Suleiman had similar talks with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

              The New York Times suggested that among the proposals was a plan for Mr Mubarak to resign immediately and hand power to a military-backed interim government under Mr Suleiman.

              Neither the White House nor the state department have directly denied the report.

              But a spokesman for the President Barack Obama's National Security Council said it was "time to begin a peaceful, orderly and meaningful transition, with credible, inclusive negotiations".

              "We have discussed with the Egyptians a variety of different ways to move that process forward, but all of those decisions must be made by the Egyptian people," said Tommy Vietor.

              The BBC's Mark Mardell in Washington says other reports suggest the US plan has already been rebuffed in Egypt, and that the administration has been surprised by the attitude of the military and Mr Suleiman.

              The reports say officials believe Mr Suleiman was aware of the apparent campaign in recent days to intimidate the opposition, and are now wondering whether he is the right man to lead an interim government, says our correspondent.
              Source: BBC News
              BBC News - Egypt protests: Thousands set for 'day of departure'
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

              Comment


              • #8
                FOX news today was showing horrific scenes in Cairo and outlying cities. Does anyone know, has the violence spread to the more rural villages? Rural inhabitants tend to favor those in power, for whatever reason. Anyone know?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chogy View Post
                  FOX news today was showing horrific scenes in Cairo and outlying cities. Does anyone know, has the violence spread to the more rural villages? Rural inhabitants tend to favor those in power, for whatever reason. Anyone know?
                  Rural areas tend to be more conservative and support the status quo. Urban populations tend to be more liberal, educated, and become unsatisfied with the status quo. In America, rural areas generally support the Republicans. Urban areas favor the Democrats. The suburbs swing back and forth.

                  The same dynamic is being seen in Egypt. Mubarak and the old guard are the conservatives. El-Baradei and the democratic revolutionaries are liberals - not necessarily in the sense of the term as it has become understood in America, but liberal in terms of progressive, wanting change.
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak betrayed his people and the uprising against his rule is the appropriate response, Iran's top leader said during Friday prayers in Tehran.

                    Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also told worshippers that widening unrest in the Arab world is a sign of "Islamic awareness" in the region.

                    Iran has portrayed the unrest in Egypt, which erupted Jan. 25, as a replay of the 1979 Iranian Revolution that toppled the pro-U.S. Shah and brought Islamic militants to power.

                    In his speech, Khamenei accused Mubarak of turning Egypt, a close U.S. ally, of doing America's bidding, particularly in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Egypt was the first Arab country to sign a peace agreement with Israel and Mubarak has been a key mediator between Israel and the Palestinians.

                    "America's control over Egypt's leaders has ... turned Egypt into the biggest enemy ofr Palestine and turned it into the greatest refuge for Zionists," Khamenei said.

                    "This explosion we see among the people of Egypt is the appropriate response to this great betrayal that the traitor dictator committed against his people," Khamenei said, without mentioning Mubarak by name.

                    Despite Iran's attempts to compare Egypt's uprising to the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran, there are many differences. Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood is perhaps most organized of the opposition factions, but the protests have been driven by a loose alliance of diverse groups, including young, secular Egyptians.

                    The Brotherhood, which is officially banned, calls for rule by Islamic law in Egypt. But it has also cast itself in an uneasy partnership with pro-democracy advocate Mohamed ElBaradei and other opposition groups.

                    *IMO What a f'in joke. I wonder if the Iranians feel betrayed by lies from the almighty Assahola and Dinnerjacket. Faked elections, comms shut down, opposition jailed etc etc etc. I sincerely hope their heads are on the chopping block next.
                    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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