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Thread: Ask An Expert- Battleships

  1. #121
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    Could the two Prinz Eugen 8 inch guns still be at Dalhgren as well?

    It would be ashame to see these destroyed.
    Last edited by Ken_NJ; 10 Mar 11, at 00:05.

  2. #122
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Could the two Prinz Eugen 8 inch guns still be at Dalhgren as well?

    It would be ashame to see these destroyed.
    I think only one is there. This link was last updated in 2007 so all those barrels are probably still on display.

    USA 18"/48 (45.7 cm) Mark 1, 16"/56 (40.6 cm) Mark 4 and 18"/47 (45.7 cm) Mark A

    I like the humor of the photo having a VW in the picture also.
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  3. #123
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    Things have been moved around since that picture was taken. Not sure of the date of this Google view. In the Google view, the RR tracks are no longer there although you can see where they were. The pile of barrels were right next to the larger building. You need to scroll south to see that building. Looks like the 18" gun is still there, or when this image was taken.
    The VW seems to be gone!

    navsea - Google Maps
    Last edited by Ken_NJ; 10 Mar 11, at 17:35.

  4. #124
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Battery Pennsylvania (USS Arizona 14"/45 guns) test firing days before VJ day ending WWII.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013966b.jpg

    Battery Pennsylvania being assembled:
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013967b.jpg
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  5. #125
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    I have another question. Did the Marines that manned the 5" mounts receive OTJ training aboard the ship, or did the carry a specific MOS? Just out of curiosity.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocHayes View Post
    I have another question. Did the Marines that manned the 5" mounts receive OTJ training aboard the ship, or did the carry a specific MOS? Just out of curiosity.
    I think it was strictly OTJ (On The Job) training. Years ago all 5"/38 practice loading machines were removed from all Navy ships as a weight savings. Heavy electronic equipment required to be above Main Deck was the cause of the removals.

    We only had about 48 Marines aboard each BB and manning a twin mount takes a third to half of that. So ALL Marines had to train on their mount as it requires lots of muscle and fast reflexes that can fatigue you in as little as 20 minutes if firing is constant and intensive. So the rest of the Devil Dog unit also has to train to be relief crews.

    But they can be doggone good. I was aboard New Jersey's gunnery trial and when it came time for the secondaries to open up on a towed sleeve, the Devil Dogs in Mount 55 made it sound almost like a machine gun.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    I think it was strictly OTJ (On The Job) training. Years ago all 5"/38 practice loading machines were removed from all Navy ships as a weight savings. Heavy electronic equipment required to be above Main Deck was the cause of the removals.

    We only had about 48 Marines aboard each BB and manning a twin mount takes a third to half of that. So ALL Marines had to train on their mount as it requires lots of muscle and fast reflexes that can fatigue you in as little as 20 minutes if firing is constant and intensive. So the rest of the Devil Dog unit also has to train to be relief crews.

    But they can be doggone good. I was aboard New Jersey's gunnery trial and when it came time for the secondaries to open up on a towed sleeve, the Devil Dogs in Mount 55 made it sound almost like a machine gun.
    Agreed with the above, all of the Iowas had one 5"/38 mount dedicated to US Marines for their use. For both the New Jersey and the Wisconsin this was mount 55 Starboard side aft.

    It can also be stated that US Marines also manned 20mm machine guns and 40mm aboard the Iowas (Iowa in this case) as I have first hand knowledge of this. A close friend of the family who was a former US Marine stationed aboard Iowa during WWII imparted this information and other information of his duties to me in writing.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 15 Mar 11, at 19:20.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Agreed with the above, all of the Iowas had one 5"/38 mount dedicated to US Marines for their use. For both the New Jersey and the Wisconsin this was mount 55 Starboard side aft.

    It can also be stated that US Marines also manned 20mm machine guns and 40mm aboard the Iowas (Iowa in this case) as I have first hand knowledge of this. A close friend of the family who was a former US Marine stationed aboard Iowa during WWII imparted this information and other information of his duties to me in writing.
    Interesting. One of my friends at the VFW post I visit once in a while thought he was the last USS Iowa Marine left from WW II. He was aboard Iowa in Tokyo Bay while the surrender was being signed on the Missouri.

    His name is Frank Grub. Perhaps same person or does your friend remember him?
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    Interesting. One of my friends at the VFW post I visit once in a while thought he was the last USS Iowa Marine left from WW II. He was aboard Iowa in Tokyo Bay while the surrender was being signed on the Missouri.

    His name is Frank Grub. Perhaps same person or does your friend remember him?
    Hi Mr L., I should see this person within the next month I will ask if that name sounds familiar. I dont think the person on my end was aboard Iowa in Tokyo Bay, I do know he was on shakedown and Tirpitz watch. And he has mentioned the Admiral being aboard for a time and being one of the Admirals "statues" so I am assuming that it was Rear Admiral Hustdvedt after taking Roosevelt to the Tehran Conference and embarking for the Pacific.

    The above assumes Rear Admiral Hustvedt (COMBATDIV7) being the first real Brass aboard Iowa since Commisioning and Roosevelts trip with all the Brass to Tehran. Or atleast thats what her record shows in the timeframe.

    Myself, I have only seen in person two former sailors that were aboard the Missouri as crew and during the Surrender Ceremony. Thats how we know that paint was taken from the Iowa to create the "pretty" side of the Missouri that both the press and public saw. Malcome Muir stated this in his book but it was ten times more believable coming from their own words and memories as they prepared Missouri to meet the world via the press the next morning.

    I would have to ask what year he left the Iowa but im pretty sure he wasnt there for the Surrender aboard her. I'm not sure how long Marine Detachments stayed aboard on the norm in WWII.



    Perhaps Gun Grape can answer that question.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 16 Mar 11, at 21:47.
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  10. #130
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    Just an update on the 15 barrels...with one day left in the auction...the price is 505K.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggerisbetter View Post
    Just an update on the 15 barrels...with one day left in the auction...the price is 505K.
    No bargain there. At $505,000 that's $3,367.00 per barrel. Each barrel weighs 118 standard tons. The price for heavy scrap (and they would be REAL heavy) is $333.00 per ton. That comes out to scrap value of $39,294.00. Though that appears to be a "profit" of $35,927.00 all that would be eaten up in labor costs to chop them up with carbon arcs and trucked to the steel mill willing to pay that price. If there was one close enough just to roll them downhill, that would be fine. But the last steel mill I know of on the West coast was Kaiser just west of San Bernadino.

    And it shut down several years ago.
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  12. #132
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    Any indication what the outcome was on the barrels? Would any of the battleship museums have been notified or were any interested? Probably expensive to transport them to the east coast where most of the BB's are located.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Any indication what the outcome was on the barrels? Would any of the battleship museums have been notified or were any interested? Probably expensive to transport them to the east coast where most of the BB's are located.
    I have no idea as to their status now. But below I have added a letter answering BB enthusiasts about the dispostition (one of them called me yesterday morning). It was sent by a member of the Navy Office of Legislative Affairs in the House of Representatives. Naturally I have deleted the name and address so they are not deluged with phone calls.

    It doesn't look good as the letter's context is more like beating around the bush and you have to read between the lines.


    [I]" ----- the law only requires a contractual provision in material donation contracts allowing Navy to recall donated spares in the event of a national emergency. Congress provided no direction regarding disposition of spare unwanted for donation.

    Note that donation is a disposal method, not a method of storage mobilization parts, although donation defers demilitarization to the end of is display life.

    For ship donation, the only statutory requirement that ship donation contracts include a recall capability in event of national emergency applies to ex-TEXAS (BB 35), ex-IOWA (BB 61), ex-WISCONSIN (BB 64), and ex-JFK (CV 67). Most ship donation contracts have that contractual provision, but for other vessels it was a matter of policy not law.

    Likewise, there is no statutory requirement to retain spares unique to BB 35 or CV 67.

    Please let me know if you have any questions."
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  14. #134
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    Could one imagine what it would take to fire up BB 35!?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Could one imagine what it would take to fire up BB 35!?
    Time, money,hunting down the right logistics and finding the right people. Thats exactly what it would take. The USN and the yards and vendors they contract have pretty much proven they are beyond resouceful in requirements. Alot of old school talent still out there and even those tought by old school talent. Many men still practice these talents as teachers, foremen etc.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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