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Thread: Ask An Expert- Battleships

  1. #91
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    I assume Turret 2, Gun 2 was replaced due to the fact is was used the most for sighting rounds?
    Well, If we look at pictures of her during her Vietnam era cruise firing a single rifle in many cases it is coming from Turret 2 center gun. And according to reports of a now Retired Marine Colonel who was present for this cruise, she opened fire for the first time on Vietnam Sept 30th 1968 with turret 2 right gun and put the very first ranging round within 100 yards of her intended target 18 miles away unseen. She expended a total of 5,866 rounds of 16 in on that cruise. Just 1,500 rounds less then her totals for WWII, Korea or in the 7 midshipmans cruises all together. It was pretty much proven when the gun replacement took place in 1984 that this gun had been used considerably more then the rest of the rifles although all were used during this cruise. Perhaps something to do with the closeness of the turret 2 to the main FC director for a shooting solution or other reasoning. They were shooting in auto taking signals from main plot during this time period according to the report. If all of her guns were replaced before she was put away in 1957 which we know they were then this gun had to do an awful lot of shooting. As Rusty mentions it was only allowed to fire reduced service charges (so no defects) and probably training rounds until it was replaced in 1984. Reduced service charges wont do anything for range (less then a full service charge) but it will change the angle the shell impacts a target surface with giving it a better chance of penetrating it.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 02 Feb 11, at 05:54.
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  2. #92
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    You may have noticed that on Page 177 of my book is the list of Gun Damage Assessment. Thanks go to one of our WAB members who posted that just before I was preparing the book for publishing. It settled a lot of negative comments from other people that didn't think she was of much help.
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  3. #93
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    Field: USS Washington (BB-56)

    Question: Was film of the USS Washington firing its 16 inch guns used in the Guadalcanal episode of Victory at Sea? If so, when was the film shot?

    PS: Quite impressive video!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archdude View Post
    Field: USS Washington (BB-56)

    Question: Was film of the USS Washington firing its 16 inch guns used in the Guadalcanal episode of Victory at Sea? If so, when was the film shot?

    PS: Quite impressive video!
    I have 26 Volumes of Victory At Sea. Guadalcanal is Vol. 6. I'll run it and take a look.
    From what I can see, the end of Vol.6 appears to be a conglomerate of the night battles of Savo Island. The footage ofcoarse depicts US and Japanese battleships and flashes of US cruisers. Since there were only two US BB's in the area for these battles (Washington and South Dakota) it has to be one or the other since North Carolina was with the carriers at the time. There is not enough detail to tell which ship it is since you can only see flashes when the guns go off and an American Flag on the stern. As far as the date of the footage...approximately mid November 1942. There are shots of Washington firing during the night at close range but you can't be certain this matches Victory at Sea's footage.

    Washington firing at close range during this time period.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015617.jpg
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 07 Feb 11, at 22:13.
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  5. #95
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Well, believe it or not, its finally happened. This time I'M the one that needs some expert advice.

    The biggest "gun" I've ever fired was the M-2 .50 caliber machine gun and the biggest "cannon" I ever fired was a 76mm from an M-41 tank.

    I have seen the 16"/50's fill the air with smoke and shards of silk bags and been pushed around a bit by their overpressure (muzzle blast). I have done some design work on the turrets, the most extensive was relocating the positive stops in Turret III to prevent the barrels from hitting the Boat Handling Boom on the port side or the FAS kingpost on the stbd side. I have been up and down them on all four Iowa's, around them, checking this "structural" item out or measuring something up that requires steel workers. But the complex mechanisms in the turrets of motors, hydraulic pumps, switches, hoists, safety interlocks, etc. were too much for me to try to learn and still get my regular job done.

    I have three very, very thick manuals on those turrets about 3 feet above my receding hairline. But much of the nomenclature of the various mechanisms are better understood by electricians or machinists that were GM's in those turrets.

    For a project I'm thinking about (building a cut-away or plexiglass model of a turret), I really need a real savvy GM to help decipher some of this stuff. But preferably I would like to have somebody who is somewhat local to me in the Southern California area.

    So if any of you WABBERS are that qualified or know somebody who is and is within driving distance of north Long Beach, I would appreciate any leads you can give me.
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  6. #96
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    You have mail Rusty.
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    Over in the Fletcher thread, Dreadnought posted this link to a picture of the NJ. The topic was the bridge structure but can someone explain the rope or chain coming down from the foreward-most hawse pipe. I know they have paravanes on the battleships, but all the guys look like they are in dress whites, not working, and the ship is underway with a tug following. Supposedly the picture is from the Philly Navy Yard collection.

    http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016219w.jpg

    Fletcher thread link....http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...tml#post789188

  8. #98
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Question about the umbrella's

    Washington firing at close range during this time period.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015617.jpg[/QUOTE]

    What are the unfurled umbrella looking devices between the forward anti aircraft guns abd the anchor chain on the bow?

  9. #99
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Washington firing at close range during this time period.
    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015617.jpg
    What are the unfurled umbrella looking devices between the forward anti aircraft guns abd the anchor chain on the bow?

    What you see on the main deck appear to be a few of Washingtons 20 mm Orlikon mounts and ready sevice ammo lockers that are covered. The horse shoe looking plate is the armor plating for the gunner protection. The guns are in the mounts and facing straight upwards.

    This is a pic of Washington the morning after the night battle of Savo. If you look at her bow number (56) above it on the main deck under the canvas is a 20 mm Orlikon They also ran along the rail abreast of turret #2. She was fitted with 20mm mounts and ready lockers during overhaul in NYC.

    http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015673b.jpg

    If that is what you are looking at?
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 17 Feb 11, at 06:48.
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  10. #100
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Over in the Fletcher thread, Dreadnought posted this link to a picture of the NJ. The topic was the bridge structure but can someone explain the rope or chain coming down from the foreward-most hawse pipe. I know they have paravanes on the battleships, but all the guys look like they are in dress whites, not working, and the ship is underway with a tug following. Supposedly the picture is from the Philly Navy Yard collection.

    http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016219w.jpg

    Fletcher thread link....http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...tml#post789188
    That is actually the Bull Nose on the forward bullwark of the ship, not a hawse pipe. Both Port & Stbd anchors are aweigh in their own hawse pipes.

    The Bull Nose "eye" is a large steel casting and it does have a down slope as it exits the hull. It's primary use is for a single leg tow chain. In the photo, the line appears to be a temporary tow wire that had been released from the main tug. The photo is hard to see but it appears to be secured to the forward most towing padeye just off ship's centerline.

    It's secondary use was indeed for running the paravane line down through the paravane eye on the forefoot skeg. The paravane chain run down through the forefoot behind the eye through a steel pipe. Iowa and New Jersey used 7" IPS pipe but Missouri and Wisconsin used 8" IPS as odd numbered pipe sizes from 7" on up were discarded.

    Yeah. I'm trying to sell another book as you can tell by my indiscrete jargon of paravane eye and forefoot skeg and IPS pipe. See the pictures on pages 204 & 205.

    Besides, it's just too late tonight to go into full detail as it would be quite volumous and also would require drawings and photos.

    And I need to get to bed as I have to go to a funeral tomorrow morning of another LBNSY worker who was also a very good friend.
    Last edited by RustyBattleship; 17 Feb 11, at 07:39.
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  11. #101
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Yes, that is what I observed..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    What are the unfurled umbrella looking devices between the forward anti aircraft guns abd the anchor chain on the bow?

    What you see on the main deck appear to be a few of Washingtons 20 mm Orlikon mounts and ready sevice ammo lockers that are covered. The horse shoe looking plate is the armor plating for the gunner protection. The guns are in the mounts and facing straight upwards.

    This is a pic of Washington the morning after the night battle of Savo. If you look at her bow number (56) above it on the main deck under the canvas is a 20 mm Orlikon They also ran along the rail abreast of turret #2. She was fitted with 20mm mounts and ready lockers during overhaul in NYC.

    http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015673b.jpg

    If that is what you are looking at?
    Dread,

    That is what I observed in the navsource imagine. Thanks.
    The illumination of the fire from the 16-inch rifle created a very special picture.
    Looking at the Washington's design the multiple 20-mm can be noted lining the rail.

  12. #102
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Dread,

    That is what I observed in the navsource imagine. Thanks.
    The illumination of the fire from the 16-inch rifle created a very special picture.
    Looking at the Washington's design the multiple 20-mm can be noted lining the rail.
    It is well noted that USN Captains of all ships were grabbing as many guns as possible for their ships during refits and overhaul before setting off in the Pacific for the final show down that was soon to come. Although the 20mm were the smaller of the arms they still grabbed every one they could get their hands on and mounted them wherever they could. As you can tell, Washington was already prepared that night for something upclose and personel hence the ready mounted service ammo. There are still ships (BB's and others) such as New York whose final armament is not listed. She did train gunners mates though so she did have alot of 20mm down her decks.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 21 Feb 11, at 21:22.
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  13. #103
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    What was the first ship design that incorporated Superfiring? Was it a part of a the Dreadnought or the Battleship/Battlecruiser age? Was the concept around before the ship designs were actually drawn up?
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  14. #104
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    From what I've read, it was the French pre dreadnought Battleship Henri IV.

    For the Americans the first ship to use that layou wsa the monitor USS Florida (testbed). The first ships to incorporate it in the design was the South Carolina class in 1908.

  15. #105
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Most sources list Henri V (1902) as the first super firing turret warship, the British Neptune (1911) was their first. The French tested the safety of the arrangement by putting sheep in the lower turret and firing the upper turret guns on Henri V, some of the sheep died. Later they figured out that open sighting hoods on the lower turret - under the muzzles of the upper turret was a bad idea. The US put the hoods on the sides of the turrets the South Carolina, solving the problem.
    Attachment 24561
    The French Navy: Big, Bad Battleships' Picture History, 1850-1916

    Attachment 24562
    USS Michigan, sister of South Carolina. Note the sighting hoods mounted low on the sides of the turrets
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 03 Mar 11, at 16:09.
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