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Thread: Ask An Expert- Battleships

  1. #151
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Sorry not a question and was not sure which thread to post this in. In the Fletcher tour thread, the latest discussion was about captains requesting modifications to their own ships which were not part of the entire class and whether BuShips might have approved of the mod. While searching for pictures of the swimming pool gun tubs on the NJ, I came across this nice 'tour' picture site of the NJ as she exists today. Don't know if it has been previously posted on WAB, but here it is anyway. And as I understand, one Iowa class BB captain requested bridge mods which was applied to the other ships.

    U.S.S. New Jersey Walkthrough
    I posted a link back on the other thread of the swimming pools but that shot was shortly after she was tied up in Camden, as you can see the stair/elevator towers are still being built.
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  2. #152
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Sorry not a question and was not sure which thread to post this in. In the Fletcher tour thread, the latest discussion was about captains requesting modifications to their own ships which were not part of the entire class and whether BuShips might have approved of the mod. While searching for pictures of the swimming pool gun tubs on the NJ, I came across this nice 'tour' picture site of the NJ as she exists today. Don't know if it has been previously posted on WAB, but here it is anyway. And as I understand, one Iowa class BB captain requested bridge mods which was applied to the other ships.

    U.S.S. New Jersey Walkthrough
    Nice pics. The top one is before she left Norfolk as the AN/ULQ-6 antenna outriggers were not installed yet. Only the deck house "ears" to support the consoles. When she arrived at Long Beach, we had to install the antennas themselves. Lots of fun for me hanging out on the end of those outriggers with the NAVELEX guy and Shop 67 electronics mechanics mounting plastic washers to get the antennas perfectly aligned. then those plastic washers were sent to Shop 31 machinists to be precisely duplicated in steel.

    I even got 50% high pay for that though I wasn't afraid of heights (at least not then).

    The lower photo shows her AFTER she left Long Beach. Under the barrels of Turret I you can see the rings in the deck where we cut off the forward 40 mm gun tubs. Bernie Jankowski was one of the shipfitters who had them cut off and had to grind the welds down flush the day before she left for Nam.

    The "Swimming Pool" was 40 mm gun tub 43 (01 level, Stbd side) that was painted blue on the inside and filled with water strictly for photo ops. Photos were taken of the ship's Captain and others only on one day with instructions by the ships Medical Officer to take showers afterwards. The water was put in without chlorination and was used for only that one day of photo ops.

    But what the hell. You gotta have some fun sometime.
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  3. #153
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    What is left of the 'swimming pool' tub is the 5th picture down on this 'superstructure' link. Not a good picture as it is in both sun and shadow. tub
    Picture 12 & 13 - What is left of two 5 inch mounts. port - starboard
    Picture 17-19 - What is the purpose of this elevator? Is it for a person to just go up and down a few levels? Or was it for specific equipment? elevator

    U.S.S. New Jersey - Superstructure

    Last picture on that page, the underside of the ears. Are the 'ears' just a room or is it packed with electronics equipment? Not sure how high up in the tower you can wander around. Another shot here
    Last edited by Ken_NJ; 27 Apr 11, at 09:47.

  4. #154
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    A shot of the area of the original 40mm tub (swimming pool) on the 01 level.

    Elevator: The small exterior elevator was not used to transport a human being but machinery (CIWS ammo drums etc) things that either weighed too much that one person couldnt handle getting to the upper levels by themselves or things such as ammo that should not pass through certain areas of the ship.

    The underside of the mainmast (Spot 1) or "ears" as we are calling them above are equipment spaces for ECM's as are the smaller boxes on the catwalk above. If you look closely at the mast you can see vision slits (elongated ovals) above the Captains bridge in the mast for original spotting purposes. It is a pretty tight fit getting up the mast on the interior. The ladders are pretty tight but there is acess to the above areas for maint/repair purposes.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 27 Apr 11, at 13:53.
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  5. #155
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    A shot of the area of the original 40mm tub (swimming pool) on the 01 level.

    Elevator: The small exterior elevator was not used to transport a human being but machinery (CIWS ammo drums etc) things that either weighed too much that one person couldnt handle getting to the upper levels by themselves or things such as ammo that should not pass through certain areas of the ship.

    The underside of the mainmast (Spot 1) or "ears" as we are calling them above are equipment spaces for ECM's as are the smaller boxes on the catwalk above. If you look closely at the mast you can see vision slits (elongated ovals) above the Captains bridge in the mast for original spotting purposes. It is a pretty tight fit getting up the mast on the interior. The ladders are pretty tight but there is acess to the above areas for maint/repair purposes.
    NAVSEA was a littled ticked at me for leaving the outboard shields of those gun tubs left in place. They had them cut off flush to the longitudinal bulkhead below because they thought it was cheaper.

    It wasn't. Plus by leaving the outer shields on allowed room to add one more life raft rack on each side of the ship. Without the tub shield, only 2 racks could be put in that spot. But 3 fit easily with the tub extension.
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  6. #156
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    The "Swimming Pool" was 40 mm gun tub 43 (01 level, Stbd side) that was painted blue on the inside and filled with water strictly for photo ops. Photos were taken of the ship's Captain and others only on one day with instructions by the ships Medical Officer to take showers afterwards. The water was put in without chlorination and was used for only that one day of photo ops.

    Hmm, I would certainly agree with you Rusty about the Photo ops but the image i linked in the DD thread clearly shows 1 pool also located on the Port side 01 level. I do know the Starboard existed as well. Maybe cut down before she reached port?

    I grabbed another overhead pic of her at sea in April 1969 with the Coral Sea (to make sure it wasnt photoshopped in anyway) You can make out both pools in white on the 01 Port and Starboard.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162040.jpg

    Could it be that the Port side was removed along the way home instead of at home in Long Beach?
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 27 Apr 11, at 22:19.
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  7. #157
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    The "Swimming Pool" was 40 mm gun tub 43 (01 level, Stbd side) that was painted blue on the inside and filled with water strictly for photo ops. Photos were taken of the ship's Captain and others only on one day with instructions by the ships Medical Officer to take showers afterwards. The water was put in without chlorination and was used for only that one day of photo ops.

    Hmm, I would certainly agree with you Rusty about the Photo ops but the image i linked in the DD thread clearly shows 1 pool also located on the Port side 01 level. I do know the Starboard existed as well. Maybe cut down before she reached port?

    I grabbed another overhead pic of her at sea in April 1969 with the Coral Sea (to make sure it wasnt photoshopped in anyway) You can make out both pools in white on the 01 Port and Starboard.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162040.jpg

    Could it be that the Port side was removed along the way home instead of at home in Long Beach?
    No. As far as painting gun tubs to look like swimming pools, sometimes swabbies think of the darndest things to do to look active and have fun at the same time.

    The only two 40 mm tubs removed before NJ's Nam cruise were up forward on the Main Deck. All the others were removed in 1982 for her modernization except the fantail tubs. Later one of those tubs was modified to hold a jettisonable rack for a 500 gallon gasoline bladder that was used to fuel the RPV's. The other one usually stowed empty soda cans.
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  8. #158
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    The walk around link was nice. She seems to be very well cared for. I looked closely at how she was painted which I have to assume it was by volunteers? Any idea what type of paint was used as it seems to stand up well to your tougher climate?

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    The walk around link was nice. She seems to be very well cared for. I looked closely at how she was painted which I have to assume it was by volunteers? Any idea what type of paint was used as it seems to stand up well to your tougher climate?
    Hi Tbm, The ships has its own painter on the payroll (and probably an assistant as well) Im not sure what mix of paint they are using on her currently but the former paint I believe was a grade from Sherwin Williams. I do know who the painter is and perhaps I can ask him the next time I see him. She's looking better and better. Right now or as of a week back they have been working on the Port side aft which is the side that gets the most sun or sunbleached. If I can find out I will let you know.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBattleship View Post
    No. As far as painting gun tubs to look like swimming pools, sometimes swabbies think of the darndest things to do to look active and have fun at the same time.

    The only two 40 mm tubs removed before NJ's Nam cruise were up forward on the Main Deck. All the others were removed in 1982 for her modernization except the fantail tubs. Later one of those tubs was modified to hold a jettisonable rack for a 500 gallon gasoline bladder that was used to fuel the RPV's. The other one usually stowed empty soda cans.
    Agreed Rusty, IICR its the Port side stern mount tub that housed the bladder, The majority if not all of her equipment are still in place including the lines. It will be nice to see that area finished which im sure is not far off in the distance.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Hi Tbm, The ships has its own painter on the payroll (and probably an assistant as well) Im not sure what mix of paint they are using on her currently but the former paint I believe was a grade from Sherwin Williams. I do know who the painter is and perhaps I can ask him the next time I see him. She's looking better and better. Right now or as of a week back they have been working on the Port side aft which is the side that gets the most sun or sunbleached. If I can find out I will let you know.
    A painter on the payroll, maybe even an assistant.... You guys must have a pretty tidy budget. It's not like it's specialized work to operate a scraper bar, a rag and mix probably two part paint. Oh yeah, the bristle end of the brush goes into the paint can and the wood handle fits in the hand.

  12. #162
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlas View Post
    A painter on the payroll, maybe even an assistant.... You guys must have a pretty tidy budget. It's not like it's specialized work to operate a scraper bar, a rag and mix probably two part paint. Oh yeah, the bristle end of the brush goes into the paint can and the wood handle fits in the hand.
    I am curious if it is a 2 part paint or not. One can still use solvent based paint which I do in the interior of the ship after scrapping and priming with red oxide. The exterior is a different animal. Just started to use Corroseal as a rust converter on decks which need it the most. This after removing all loose rust. Then to be double sure red oxide goes on top. The color coat is the big variable. Solvent based, DTM Industrial Acrylic or possibly a 2 part epoxy based. Solvent base has various tint bases so I can get a color from light to dark like engine room white all the way up to very dark deck gray. Problem is solvent base doesn't hold up well to UV over time. Acrylic also has three base tints, holds up well to UV, but is water based and despite what the manufacturer says it should be over an oil based primer. Now 2 parts paints are pretty damn tough but do they have the different tint bases? Some manufacturers have only pre-mixed colors which aren't Navy colors.

    Sherwin Williams was mentioned and I'm not sure they make 2 parts. I use Kelly Moore and they have a partnership with Rustoleum to turn out many Industrial Solvent, Acrylic and 2 part paints.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Sherwin Williams was mentioned and I'm not sure they make 2 parts. I use Kelly Moore and they have a partnership with Rustoleum to turn out many Industrial Solvent, Acrylic and 2 part paints.
    I would hope that they're using some kind of marine paint.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlas View Post
    A painter on the payroll, maybe even an assistant.... You guys must have a pretty tidy budget. It's not like it's specialized work to operate a scraper bar, a rag and mix probably two part paint. Oh yeah, the bristle end of the brush goes into the paint can and the wood handle fits in the hand.
    Unfortunately Salty, the budget is nothing like what it was and much much less. Many setbacks, layoffs etc. They are making do with what they have in all areas. Its tighter then tight but that cannot allow progress to cease when it comes to her overall appearance. Trust me they have very good people doing the best they can with what little is available and thats the only reason she looks so good for the public.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  15. #165
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    All museums are having a tough time except for the Midway. Probably the most prime location for a ship anywhere in the United States even over New York. We are surviving here luckily because we have a very large live aboard program where hundreds can turn out for a night at $50 a pop. Volunteers, such as Tom and me, put thousands of our own money into materials for restoration of the ship. Bought 7 gallons of paint yesterday for $270 as the store gives me 40% off as they know I buy for the Hornet. All we can hope for is people always come back now and then to see what is new. For example, elevator 3 is to be made operational which makes us the only carrier with all 3 elevators operational. This via Tom, Caterpillar and Chevron. At the moment we are waiting to see when the Navy might drop the axe on the Yorktown.

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