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Thread: Ask An Expert- Naval Forces

  1. #61
    Contributor SlaterDoc's Avatar
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    There is an operational LST(LST-325) that sails Ohio River and our DE(USS Slater, DE-766) will soon be underway! I am a little premature on that. But, it will happen! 14 years of her mains being worked on means that if they were turned over today they would run! Now we have to get her hull maintenance done. You can not stop a bunch of determined Navy vets!
    Rusty knows his stuff! The Navy still owns most of the museum ships. Not ours though or the LST. Which is why we can fire up those 16 cylinder diesels. A static ship museum is all they can be. We on the other hand are determined to have our ship "haze gray and underway". One of the possible outcomes would be that instead of closing her up for the Winter, we sail her to southern ports that don't have a ship and take on tours there! Plus, I wonder how much one would pay to spend a week sailing the East coast in a fully restored Destroyer Escort!
    You guys on the left coast have your Victory and Liberty ships(3). There are two here on the right coast. The SS American Victory is in Tampa and the SS John W Brown(Liberty) is in Baltimore, both operational. The LST-325 is working on being able to sail to Normandy in 2014 for the 70th. Imagine if we had all five cargo ships, the LST and our DE escorting! A reenactment of an Atlantic convoy!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ace009 View Post
    Does a modern day SSBN/ SSGN pose a threat to a Supercarrier? If yes, how much of a threat is it?
    Well, both kinds have subs have torpedoes so sure.

    I dont know if you would use the missiles, though....tad bit of overkill. Of course, I am talking about the US Ohios and modified Ohios.
    "The genius of you Americans is that you make no clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them we are missing." - Gamal Abdel Nasser

  3. #63
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    Rusty, that would be the Carrier Midway.

    On a cloudy September day, two years after the end of World War II, a captured German V-2 rocket was successfully test fired from the USS MIDWAY. This was a historic first in the annals of naval warfare.

    Naval records indicate the test took place several hundred miles off the East Coast of the United States with the country's top naval and civilian rocketry experts in attendance. The goal of the test? To determine if modern rockets could be fired from naval platforms and perform as intended. At that time, there was some question as to whether major modifications might be necessary for shipboard launches of missiles.

    The V-2 successfully lifted off the USS MIDWAY and was exploded about six miles away, just a few minutes after launch.

    Although the test took place on September 6, 1947, the results and photography were not released to the public until the next month, on October 13, 1947. Rear Admiral D.V. Gallery, Assistant Chief of Naval Operations for Guided Missiles, declared the test a success. The MIDWAY missile test is now considered to have been the dawn of naval missile warfare.

    USS Midway (CV 41)
    And Youtube has a History Channel segment about it.

    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  4. #64
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    No, the Midway launch of a V-2 was NOT the first missile launch off of an American warship. On February 12 of the same year (1947) the USS Cusk (Ss-348) launched a LOON missile off its deck. The LOON actually was a copy of the German V-1 "Buzz Bomb" which was (technically) the world's first Cruise Missile.

    The V-2 was the world's first IRBM (InterMediate Range Ballistic Missile).
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  5. #65
    Contributor SlaterDoc's Avatar
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    OK, here's an unusual question! Maybe you would know Rusty! Or, someone else can chime in! Our 3"50's are functional and used on a regular basis, firing blanks of course! But, myself and another shipmate or two had an idea we are exploring. We are trying to enhance the authentic look of the procedure for the enjoyment of the kids and the adults! So, I am wondering if anyone has seen, knows of or can suggest a method of making a replica projectile that would disintegrate after firing? As in using something like a compressed saw dust or something that could be shaped and painted to look like a live shell! Then when the round is fired, the simulated projectile just burns up instead of sinking one of the tugs down river!Attachment 27412
    Last edited by SlaterDoc; 03 Dec 11, at 04:38. Reason: add pic

  6. #66
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    Sorry NavyDoc, I have a question of my own. I'm building an RC model of the USS Marlin SST-2. Can anyone tell me if the circled welded areas on the hull were open at one time and were for intakes or something else, or do you think they were always welded like that. Could it be that when the boat was decommissioned that if they were open that they were sealed like this?

    And does anyone know what the device could be circled on the conning tower? It looks like some sort of beacon.

  7. #67
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_NJ View Post
    Sorry NavyDoc, I have a question of my own. I'm building an RC model of the USS Marlin SST-2. Can anyone tell me if the circled welded areas on the hull were open at one time and were for intakes or something else, or do you think they were always welded like that. Could it be that when the boat was decommissioned that if they were open that they were sealed like this?

    And does anyone know what the device could be circled on the conning tower? It looks like some sort of beacon.
    I can't help with pic #3.

    In pic #1 those are obviously welded DOUBLER plates welded over some opening (or damage) in the hull. They are called DOUBLER as they are larger than the hole and welded on the outside of the shell plating.

    In pic #2 those are welded INSERT plates. They are fit snug into the hole so the outside surface is even (and matching the curve) of the rest of the hull plating. Being on the keel is puzzling. I would suspect they were cut to remove some equipment during her dry dock decommissioning, such as a SONAR dome.

    You will find repair doublers all over most ships. You will also find welded inserts all over most ships. Most inserts we cut were to remove, replace or install equipment too big to fit through a hatch.

    Personally, I would ignore them unless you could find some documentation the the sub had a keel mounted SONAR dome. Then put the dome on. Otherwise don't go to the effort to replicate repair welds.
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  8. #68
    Contributor SlaterDoc's Avatar
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    Rusty, could those have been the cooling intakes (sea chests)?

  9. #69
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyDoc View Post
    Rusty, could those have been the cooling intakes (sea chests)?
    The doubler plates could very well be covering the intakes for water. Or maybe even the discharges. I don't know that much about attack submarines, only research submersibles that are eons advanced.

    If they are covering up a "seachest" (as we call intakes and discharges), hopefully a drawing can be found showing their size and location so the model can be accurately depicted.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

  10. #70
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    So, I am wondering if anyone has seen, knows of or can suggest a method of making a replica projectile that would disintegrate after firing? As in using something like a compressed saw dust or something that could be shaped and painted to look like a live shell!
    The mass and integrety of the dummy projectile would be critical, if it were heavy or solid, it would be dangerous. Perhaps an injection molded hollow plastic projectile, which would weigh very little and burn up easily? I've seen wax bullets, fired from a black powder cannon, penetrate 1/2" plywood, energy ~ velocity squared times mass, so make mass negligable and it would be safer. I would be plenty worried about a compressed sawdust projectile fired from a 3" cannon.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
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  11. #71
    Defense Professional RustyBattleship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    The mass and integrety of the dummy projectile would be critical, if it were heavy or solid, it would be dangerous. Perhaps an injection molded hollow plastic projectile, which would weigh very little and burn up easily? I've seen wax bullets, fired from a black powder cannon, penetrate 1/2" plywood, energy ~ velocity squared times mass, so make mass negligable and it would be safer. I would be plenty worried about a compressed sawdust projectile fired from a 3" cannon.
    The photo posted already shows a very impressive display of smoke and flame. I suspect they have some black powder in the blank. But it they want to put something out there, I suggest they contact a professional fireworks maker (one of the major ones, not a one-man shop as shown on "Dirty Jobs").

    Today's firework sky rockets are NOT rockets anymore. They are actually mortars fired from a PVC tube. When you see one going up and think you are seeing the "rocket" exhaust, you are actually only seeing the fuse at the bottom of the ball of firework.

    Perhaps one of the professional companies can rig up a nice smokey charge for your blank cartridge and shoot out a fused star burst or flash-bang. The entire casing is all paper so there is no shrapnel to worry about and the range is usually no more than a hundred yards.

    DO NOT TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING UP YOURSELF UNLESS YOU HAVE WORKED IN A FIREWORKS FACTORY, MOVIE STUDIO SPECIAL EFFECTS OR AN ORDNANCE TESTING OUTFIT.

    Get the professionals to work something up for you.
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  12. #72
    Contributor SlaterDoc's Avatar
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    Rusty, you would only catch me deceased and involved in anything like that!
    As a Corpsman, things that go boom are not in my pouch!
    But, I like the idea of contacting a fireworks display company. The one that does the 4th for the city might just be interested in helping us out! Star bursts are on the want list. But, the "flash bang" idea has lit a fuse of it's own! Since we fire the 3" guns down river, the risk is very low of damaging anything. However, I do remember one day when a certain Coast Guard vessel got a face full of smoke!

    Last edited by SlaterDoc; 04 Dec 11, at 23:23.

  13. #73
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Been there, done that, seen that. It entails more then you think including for the main part responsibility and responsibility for ones own actions.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 05 Dec 11, at 02:01.
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  14. #74
    Contributor SlaterDoc's Avatar
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    Hahaha, nope....not a modeler or a model either for that matter!
    Besides, I don't think that smell that seems to permeate my clothes every time I cross back over the brow to shore could be duplicated in a model!

    We have no problems firing off the blanks. I'm just looking at taking it up a notch! Do the guys on the NJ have some special loads they save for special times?
    I'm planning on heading to NJ in the next couple of months and may contact them and see what tidbits we can trade!
    Last edited by SlaterDoc; 05 Dec 11, at 02:03.

  15. #75
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyDoc View Post
    Hahaha, nope....not a modeler or a model either for that matter!
    Besides, I don't think that smell that seems to permeate my clothes every time I cross back over the brow to shore could be duplicated in a model!
    Nope, thats for sure. Doc if you wish you can contact me and I can "inquire".
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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