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Thread: Ask An Expert- Naval Forces

  1. #541
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    AS to the man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry

    The frigate class named after him was born and lived in the Cold War, being rapidly withdrawn or given to friendly navies after the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver...-class_frigate

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinytop View Post
    AS to the man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry

    The frigate class named after him was born and lived in the Cold War, being rapidly withdrawn or given to friendly navies after the war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver...-class_frigate
    Also worth saying: last class of frigates built in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    Also worth saying: last class of frigates built in the US.
    The wiki page on the OHP says the class was succeeded by the Freedom class and the Independence class, so yeah, you're right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    The wiki page on the OHP says the class was succeeded by the Freedom class and the Independence class, so yeah, you're right...
    Just to be clear, this is me agreeing with Jlvfr. NOT me being sarcastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Just to be clear, this is me agreeing with Jlvfr. NOT me being sarcastic.
    :D

    Yep, cause those are "Littoral combat ships"...

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    OHP's were very effective vessels for ASW work...AAW, not so much.

    LCS's are Little Crappy Ships. USN is contaminated with NIH syndrome on small ships.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Isn't the USN building, or planning to build, another class of frigate, the FFG(X)? Too bad Type 26 is not in the running. UK, Australia and Canada are going with Type 26.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    OHP's were very effective vessels for ASW work...AAW, not so much.

    LCS's are Little Crappy Ships. USN is contaminated with NIH syndrome on small ships.
    Two comments;
    1- I kinda agree with you about the LCS, but I'm still hoping the Navy works out the kinks and these guys eventually can fill some important roles, although certainly never the ones that were initially envisioned.

    2- I think the Red Sox suck, because I live in Ohio. Just sayin'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Isn't the USN building, or planning to build, another class of frigate, the FFG(X)? Too bad Type 26 is not in the running. UK, Australia and Canada are going with Type 26.
    It is. Hope they do stick to it, to finally get a proper frigate in affordable numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    It is. Hope they do stick to it, to finally get a proper frigate in affordable numbers.
    Like! And Agree!

  11. #551
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlvfr View Post
    It is. Hope they do stick to it, to finally get a proper frigate in affordable numbers.
    There will be the obligated mission creep. A simpler, ASW platform with point air defense capability will morph into a larger general purpose platform with local air defense capability, and possibly AEGIS combat system with SM-2 missiles. It'll turn out to be comparable to the Hobart class with more ASW and twice the cost.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    There will be the obligated mission creep. A simpler, ASW platform with point air defense capability will morph into a larger general purpose platform with local air defense capability, and possibly AEGIS combat system with SM-2 missiles. It'll turn out to be comparable to the Hobart class with more ASW and twice the cost.
    And down go the number of hulls again...

  13. #553
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    From the report to Congress from the Congressional Research Service:
    Ship Capabilities and Design
    As mentioned above, the (X) in the program designation FFG(X) means that the design of the
    ship has not yet been determined. In general, the Navy envisages the FFG(X) as follows:
    -The ship is to be a multimission small surface combatant capable of conducting AAW, ASuW, ASW, and EMW operations.
    -Compared to an FF concept that emerged under a February 2014 restructuring of the LCS program, the FFG(X) is to have increased AAW and EMW capability,
    and enhanced survivability.
    -The ship’s area-defense AAW system is to be capable of local area AAW, meaning a form of area-defense AAW that extends to a lesser range than the areadefense AAW that can be provided by the Navy’s cruisers and destroyers.
    -The ship is to be capable of operating in both blue water (i.e., mid-ocean) and littoral (i.e., near-shore) areas.
    -The ship is to be capable of operating either independently (when that is appropriate for its assigned mission) or as part of larger Navy formations.

    Given the above, the FFG(X) design will likely be larger in terms of displacement, more heavily armed, and more expensive to procure than either the LCS or the FF concept that emerged from
    the February 2014 LCS program restructuring.

    A November 2, 2017, Navy information paper on the combat system to be used by the FFG(X) states the following:
    In considering multiple options (Lockheed Martin’s COMBATSS-21, General Dynamics’ Integrated Combat Management System, and Raytheon’s Ship Self Defense System) for
    the Frigate’s Combat Management System (CMS), the following criteria were analyzed:
    —Commonality—the degree to which the CMS was common across variants of LCS and the rest of the Navy.
    —Performance—demonstrated ability to deliver a certifiable CMS able to meet LCS requirements, with respect to mission area capabilities.
    —Cost—the total cost to design, develop, deliver, test and sustain the CMS.

    A derivation of the AEGIS combat system widely used throughout the Navy and half of the LCS platforms, the Navy selected COMBATSS-21 as the Frigate CMS. It offered the
    highest level of commonality, best performance, and lowest cost of the three options.

    Similar to the original FF, the primary mission areas for the FFG(X) will be AntiSubmarine Warfare, Surface Warfare, and Electromagnetic Maneuver Warfare. In addition, the FFG(X) will provide upgraded Air Warfare capability and improved lethality and survivability that include a scaled SPY-6 Fixed Array Radar, Standard Missile, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile, full Surface Electronic Warfare Improvement Program Block 2 capability, and a Cooperative Engagement Capability. The CMS capabilities required to bring these enhancements are already included in Aegis; and thus, they are
    much simpler to cost effectively incorporate into COMBATSS-21.9
    With nearly everyone either developing or purchasing cheap (relatively) SSMs, a decent AAW capability is called for. SPY-6 is getting deployed on other platforms, so the idea is that R&D costs should be minimized.

  14. #554
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCT View Post
    From the report to Congress from the Congressional Research Service:


    With nearly everyone either developing or purchasing cheap (relatively) SSMs, a decent AAW capability is called for. SPY-6 is getting deployed on other platforms, so the idea is that R&D costs should be minimized.
    So an Alvaro de Bazan derivative it is! We can go big or go small. Go big we get the Hobart class. Go small we get the Fridtjof Nansen class.

    At A$3B per ship, Hobart isn't exactly cheap.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    So an Alvaro de Bazan derivative it is! We can go big or go small. Go big we get the Hobart class. Go small we get the Fridtjof Nansen class.

    At A$3B per ship, Hobart isn't exactly cheap.
    They will not be cheap, that is guaranteed! The Navy won't be able to resist changing the requirements and to appease Congress will inefficiently parse out production bits to suppliers in 40+ States.

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