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Thread: Ask An Expert- Aviation

  1. #46
    Patron Phoenix10's Avatar
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    True. And as others have already mentioned, EADS and Rafale (especially) are so desperate to get exports they probably offered anything the Indians asked in terms of ToT.
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    hey guys just wanted to know why F22 is not up for export and why F35 is????

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    hey guys just wanted to know why F22 is not up for export and why F35 is????
    Because US Congress has banned the F-22 from being exported. The idea is to keep your deadliest asset to yourself. A simple google search will tell you all about this. Try that first before bringing this question to the forum. I think you'll be able to find your answers easy enough.
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  4. #49
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    What is current Airforce doctrine ?(Australian or American)

    A general skeleton outline would be fine.

    Cheers, Wayfarer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix10 View Post
    Because US Congress has banned the F-22 from being exported. The idea is to keep your deadliest asset to yourself. A simple google search will tell you all about this. Try that first before bringing this question to the forum. I think you'll be able to find your answers easy enough.
    I did but it didnt give me a clear picture... F35 is all up for grab.. but not the F22 ...Why not to your allies?(like UK etc) they have shed same blood in the same mud & that too more dan once.. They were wid you in Afghanistan and any war they you have fought .... Even F16 was like that for a while if im not mistaken ...I guess US doesnt trust anyone ..neither we should trust US..

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    I did but it didnt give me a clear picture... F35 is all up for grab.. but not the F22 ...Why not to your allies?(like UK etc) they have shed same blood in the same mud & that too more dan once.. They were wid you in Afghanistan and any war they you have fought .... Even F16 was like that for a while if im not mistaken ...I guess US doesnt trust anyone ..neither we should trust US..
    Cutting edge technology has rarely been shared, even among allies. In order to minimize risk of said technology getting into the hands of non-friendly parties, it would only make sense to ensure that you're the only one that has access to it. The more people with access, even allies, the higher the risk of that technology being leaked is. It's less so that the "US doesn't trust anyone" and more "the US would rather be safe than sorry".

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    I did but it didnt give me a clear picture... F35 is all up for grab.. but not the F22 ...Why not to your allies?(like UK etc) they have shed same blood in the same mud & that too more dan once.. They were wid you in Afghanistan and any war they you have fought .... Even F16 was like that for a while if im not mistaken ...I guess US doesnt trust anyone ..neither we should trust US..
    Ace is exactly right. The US exports more defense tech than any other nation. There is a great deal of very advanced tech that is shared with allies (think AEGIS). Recall a few years back when Japan leaked all that information on AEGIS. It is not that the US does not trust Japan, its just that the more you put out there the easier it is for others to take advantage. Every nations acts to protect its most cherished assets- bar none. You have to realize that this is about economic advantage as much as stragegic. The US has spent billions to develop the best of the best and does not want someone like China to be able to gain the same capability without making a similar investment.

    As for the F-22, it has features that no other aircraft currently has, including the F-35. Those capabilities are mostly secret. Imagine if every US ally were flying around with F-22s. It would then be much easier for potential adversaries to collect intelligence on the F-22. That is part of what the US is trying to avoid. Things are not as black and white as you imply.
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  8. #53
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    I did but it didnt give me a clear picture... F35 is all up for grab.. but not the F22 ...Why not to your allies?(like UK etc) they have shed same blood in the same mud & that too more dan once.. They were wid you in Afghanistan and any war they you have fought .... Even F16 was like that for a while if im not mistaken ...I guess US doesnt trust anyone ..neither we should trust US..
    There are several reasons the F-22 is not available, the number one reason being the ToT issues; what's the point in buying a down-graded F-22 when you can basically get the same thing for less by buying an F-15? Assuming the F-22 ever IS offered for sale to a foreign country, even a country on very friendly terms with the US (like Australia, Canada, UK, Japan, etc.), it would be so watered-down that it wouldn't justify the cost. And cost is the second most important reason it probably won't be offered overseas: very few countries have either the means or the inclination to shell out $200 million for a single fighter, even a very good one. For that much money, you could buy 3-1/2 Super Hornets, which do most of what the Raptor does at 1/3 the cost. No, the Super Bug isn't nearly as stealthy as the F-22, nor is it quite as manueverable, but most countries would rather have three GOOD fighters rather than one excellent one. And, finally, the biggest reason of all: the production line is shutting down as soon as the 187th airframe rolls off the assembly line; the last fuselage mid-section manufactured in Fort Worth was shipped to Marietta last month, the last aircraft should be completed in July or August. Several studies have been done to look into re-opening the assembly line, but the start-up costs would be prohibitive; the Fort Worth assembly line has already been shut-down, and the disassembly process has begun. It would take an act of Congress to re-open the assembly line, and that's assuming the President doesn't veto it.

    As an aside, here is a Congressional Research Service report on "Potential F-22 Raptor Export To Japan" originally released to Wikileaks on July 2, 2007:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22684.pdf
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  9. #54
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    I did but it didnt give me a clear picture... F35 is all up for grab.. but not the F22 ...Why not to your allies?(like UK etc) they have shed same blood in the same mud & that too more dan once.. They were wid you in Afghanistan and any war they you have fought .... Even F16 was like that for a while if im not mistaken ...I guess US doesnt trust anyone ..neither we should trust US..
    I'm sure if UK really wanted the F-22, we would eventually sell them some. Here's the question though, how much would they pay for each?

    We spent an astronomical sum of money on the F-22. The cost of each ranges any where from $180 million to $350 million. Does anyone actually want to pay for the initial cost of research? If not, then why should we give away our trade secrets for free?

    F-35 is up for grabs because we have cajoled our partners into sharing the cost of research. The more they pay, the earlier they'll get their planes. Regular custormers will have to wait until the partners get their orders filled first before taking delivery of F-35s. It's simple economics.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    There are several reasons the F-22 is not available, the number one reason being the ToT issues; what's the point in buying a down-graded F-22 when you can basically get the same thing for less by buying an F-15? Assuming the F-22 ever IS offered for sale to a foreign country, even a country on very friendly terms with the US (like Australia, Canada, UK, Japan, etc.), it would be so watered-down that it wouldn't justify the cost. And cost is the second most important reason it probably won't be offered overseas: very few countries have either the means or the inclination to shell out $200 million for a single fighter, even a very good one. For that much money, you could buy 3-1/2 Super Hornets, which do most of what the Raptor does at 1/3 the cost. No, the Super Bug isn't nearly as stealthy as the F-22, nor is it quite as manueverable, but most countries would rather have three GOOD fighters rather than one excellent one. And, finally, the biggest reason of all: the production line is shutting down as soon as the 187th airframe rolls off the assembly line; the last fuselage mid-section manufactured in Fort Worth was shipped to Marietta last month, the last aircraft should be completed in July or August. Several studies have been done to look into re-opening the assembly line, but the start-up costs would be prohibitive; the Fort Worth assembly line has already been shut-down, and the disassembly process has begun. It would take an act of Congress to re-open the assembly line, and that's assuming the President doesn't veto it.

    As an aside, here is a Congressional Research Service report on "Potential F-22 Raptor Export To Japan" originally released to Wikileaks on July 2, 2007:

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22684.pdf
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  11. #56
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    I believe F-22 technology is on par (in terms of sensitivity) with nuclear secrets. Maybe more so. Some things are national treasures of human effort, and the F-22 is one of those. It is shockingly good, looks at its competition like an F-15 might view an F-86 Sabre.

    What is current Airforce doctrine ?(Australian or American)

    A general skeleton outline would be fine.

    Cheers, Wayfarer
    Dear Wayfarer - sorry I missed this one, but the question is enormously broad.

    Like the ultimate naval doctrine of control of the sea lanes, denial of same to the enemy, Air Force doctrines all revolve around control of the air. Deny the enemy airspace, utilize airspace for one's own purposes (CAS and interdiction). Control can be temporary (a prestrike sweep, CAP, then egress) or permanent (The WW2 ETO in March 1945). Along with this goes SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses).

    That outlines an Air Force capable of offensive (expeditionary) operations. A defensively oriented Air Force can skip SEAD, air refueling, and bombers, and focus on a purely fighter interceptor fleet that would deny an enemy mastery of the air over its own turf.

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    HAL Tejas, the mk.1 variant is suppose to carry its opto-electronic sensors in an external hardpoint, but as HAL/ADA got a second chance to modify the aircraft, I was highly optimistic that an integrated system would be introduced (like that found in mordern aircrafts like F-35 or the Su-27/30 etc.), but current information about the uprated version of the aircraft do not specify any such modification.
    My point is if the aircraft always need to carry such a pod externally for a mission, an integrated system can contribute towards lower radar reflection, lesser aerodynamic drag, free one external hardpoint and maybe even some weight reductions.
    so why HAL/ADA or IAF didnít felt like introducing an integrated system in the mk.2 version of the Tejas, if a retractable refueling pod can be introduced why not the integrated opto-electronic system?

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    I'm still rather new to this website so I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this kind of question, but does anybody know who the first fighter pilot, of any nation, who is credited with being the first to break Baron Von Richtoven's record of 80 kills and what year that would have been? I'm assuming he's German. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by payeng View Post
    HAL Tejas, the mk.1 variant is suppose to carry its opto-electronic sensors in an external hardpoint, but as HAL/ADA got a second chance to modify the aircraft, I was highly optimistic that an integrated system would be introduced (like that found in mordern aircrafts like F-35 or the Su-27/30 etc.), but current information about the uprated version of the aircraft do not specify any such modification.
    My point is if the aircraft always need to carry such a pod externally for a mission, an integrated system can contribute towards lower radar reflection, lesser aerodynamic drag, free one external hardpoint and maybe even some weight reductions.
    so why HAL/ADA or IAF didnít felt like introducing an integrated system in the mk.2 version of the Tejas, if a retractable refueling pod can be introduced why not the integrated opto-electronic system?
    i'm certainly not an expert so i'll give you a layman's answer, which is simply there is not enough space on LCA's nose to accommodate IRST or other opto-electronic device

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