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Thread: Ask An Expert- LAND Forces.

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Question - (I am embarrassed to ask but I don't know jack about tanks) - Looking at a MBT, there are obvious areas well protected by the most advanced armor imaginable. But the layman like myself looks at the tracks and wheels, and these same painfully vulnerable below any skirting. It would appear that a hit by any enemy main gun, or even 25mm or 30mm cannon fire, would shred these and create an instant mobility kill. Once immobilized, it is not much of a threat and can be dealt with later.
    The tracks, yes; if you lose a track, the tank stops. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe a tank (even a heavy one like the M1) can lose one or two road wheels and still move; it won't move very fast, obviously, and the ride will suck, but it can still get around under it's own power.
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    The tracks, yes; if you lose a track, the tank stops. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe a tank (even a heavy one like the M1) can lose one or two road wheels and still move; it won't move very fast, obviously, and the ride will suck, but it can still get around under it's own power.
    The tanks can move with blown off road wheels, snapped torsion bars etc, but it will affect mobility, speed, range and main gun accuracy.

    However except at close range, hitting a road wheel is not really a big threat. If the enemy already has the tank in the broadside profile, why not aim for the much easier to hit crew areas? Aiming for roadwheels means aiming, aim too low and you kill fluffy bunnys not tanks.

    As for tank sights, most are "proofed" vs splinters and machine gun fire in various ways. For example on the Abrams the primary FLIR is set back from the edge of the turret in an armored box. It would be very difficult for shrapnel to hit the sight after exploding close enough to keep enough energy to actually do the job. The leopard II makes the primary sight untouchable from every angle but the direct front.

    So while you can target the sights, like roadwheels is a hard target to get.

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    Question: AT defenses

    Erm... Wouldn't AT defenses be pretty effective if you just dug some foxholes and stuck limpet mines (or whatever they are called now) on the tank's underside? Can the main gun depress low enough to take the foxhole out? I doubt the MG could.

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    Sure, it would work if you managed to make it all the way to the tank without being noticed by the tank crew, without the infantry in the area surrounding the tank lager, if you managed to attach a strong enough mine to get through the belly armor (think in the hundreds of kg range) and managed to not get your ass run over by any maneuvering tanks

    If you're working on the premise of the tank coming to you, then the tank has all the time in the world to shoot at defenses before they actually reach them. Even if the cannon isn't aimed properly at the foxhole, the pressure from the round is still plenty damaging and can rupture your eardrums and give you a nosebleed, at the very least
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    Thanks. But if your nation is composed of illiterate two bit conscripts it might be better than other options wouldn't it? Or what is the favored attack?

    IIRC I saw some photos of some very brave fellows on horses charging panzers... So horrible.

  6. #21
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    The tracks, yes; if you lose a track, the tank stops. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe a tank (even a heavy one like the M1) can lose one or two road wheels and still move; it won't move very fast, obviously, and the ride will suck, but it can still get around under it's own power.

    Losing a track does not immobilise the tank , ask this , how does a tank turn , answer , pull the lever and the tank turns that way because one track is stopped so the tank turns , now then , if a track is lost , say the left one , the driver then pulls on the left stick and the tank goes on one track , HOWEVER it can not turn , BUT , it can get you out of danger


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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche917LH View Post
    Thanks. But if your nation is composed of illiterate two bit conscripts it might be better than other options wouldn't it? Or what is the favored attack?

    IIRC I saw some photos of some very brave fellows on horses charging panzers... So horrible.
    If your nation is composed of "illiterate two bit conscripts" (Bad form to belittle your enemy, by the way) and they're up against even a relatively well trained and disciplined army, they are going to die in large numbers. If they want to die trying to mine a few tanks or die in any other method, the bottom line is that they're still gonna die. Killing off a dozen or 2 dozen tanks is not going to make a difference in the long run.

    Of course all that goes out the window when one looks at the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan, even before the US started supporting the Mudjehadeen. All the might of the Soviet army couldn't properly supress the Mudj'.
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    cr9527. You will find that the vast majority of modern day Tanks especially European, British and US operate all in the same way or similar way. MIA1920, Leopard 2, Challenger 2 etc. all elevate very slightly in order for the Loader to load the Main Armanent easily, once loaded the gun reverts to the level plain. This does not slow down the Turret Crew in anyway, a good crew could get off 4 rounds in a minute fairly easily, if not more. The Fire Control Systems are now that good that First Round hits are gauranteed.

    Abrams is indeed a fast beast, I believe that Leopard 2 would on par with Abrams, Challenger 2 is slower but not by much. Speed can be affected by the suspension systems employed. The vast majority of Tanks employ Torsion Bar Suspension, which in my opinion are not very good, they tend to break on a regular basis. Challenger 1 and 2 employ a Hydro-Strut suspension system, one per wheel, this is an excellent system and good for crew comfort.

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    Tankie, your are obviously losing some grey matter, no offence mate. Remember half-tracking, I have done it on many ocassion!!!!!!!!!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kernow View Post
    Tankie, your are obviously losing some grey matter, no offence mate. Remember half-tracking, I have done it on many ocassion!!!!!!!!!
    Good to see you around mate, hows things? .................. you didnt half track when under pressure though and had no time did ya tell the truth now
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    When Tanks go into the Assualt, they don't go alone. Enemy positions would have been identified by Recce, GR sent back to Commander(s), Quick Attack Plan put in place, Tanks will either put in Flanking Assualts or Head -On, prior to the Assualt commencing a Tank Troop would be providing cover Fire, Arty will be put down until last safe moment, Tanks go through the objective and halt the other side, Mechanised Infantry dismount and sweep through positions.

    Have you been in a trench with tanks assualting? Pretty terrifying!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yooo Tankie, good to be back. To be honest, never under fire, always in the exercise mode, but it does work.

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    Some Tanks employ skirting plates that go to the floor, for this very reason. Challenger 2 did this for GW 2. Can't upload the image unfortunately.

  14. #29
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kernow View Post
    Yooo Tankie, good to be back. To be honest, never under fire, always in the exercise mode, but it does work.
    Dont know about Tankie losing the gray matter Kernow old boy ......this is T_igger ............... even on ex half tracking was like an urban legend ...possible but very rarely done .......... just wait till they drop you a new track off


    addition....... real simple on CVR (T) but on MBT's uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh no thanks !
    Last edited by T_igger_cs_30; 22 Mar 11, at 04:11.
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  15. #30
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    ps.......... Also who you talking to ? seem to be answering a lot of questions there but to who ?
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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