Historical inaccuracies thread

[Shek]

In light of some of the threads that talk about the watered down teaching of history in the US, I'd like to start as thread that explores poor uses of history.

The following video from the SCV contains numerous historical references that are simply inaccurate. I'm sure that there are more than I can identify, but there are at least three that I can source.



Once we've exhausted this particular piece, I'd ask that someone else run with an example of their own.

[Albany Rifles]

Looks good!

I'll jump in next week...I have to get the office Christma party organized!

[bigross86]

In light of some of the threads that talk about the watered down teaching of history in the US, I'd like to start as thread that explores poor uses of history.

The following video from the SCV contains numerous historical references that are simply inaccurate. I'm sure that there are more than I can identify, but there are at least three that I can source.



Once we've exhausted this particular piece, I'd ask that someone else run with an example of their own.

What happened to history being nought but a story agreed upon by the winners?

[zraver]

What happened to history being nought but a story agreed upon by the winners?

The losers learned how to write.

My least favorite historical inaccuracy is The America represented by Disney's Davy Crockett movie. All white protestent all the time and the signifigant contributions of the other peoples are largely ignored. The chinese railroad workers, the African's who built the whitehouse, the catholics who founded a colony to escape persecution America has a hidden history that is rich and full and sadly unknown.

This has negatives for the nation. it breeds contempt for those of color as unproductive, uncontributing leeches. This in turn feeds a now self fullfilling phrophecy. I don't know how many black students I have had who have no idea how much of the former slave culture still exists. The ring shout of the slave preacher in the woods is now the "Can I get an Amen" shouted from the pulpit. The meaning of hip-hop is based on African words,. They don't know them dumb N****rs outsmarted generations of white masters with an efective yet hidden message system that spanned the south. Or that the language they speak at home is not bad English, but a variant form of English with its own definable and documented rules that is based on an African and carrib past as much as a European tradition.

[Shek]

I'll offer up the first historical inaccuracy. The cadet "Southerner" is Henry Walter Kingsbury, born in Chicago, and died a Colonel of Infantry at Antietam while commanding the 11th Connecticut. Oops . . . guess he didn't fight for Southern independence.

[Shek]

My least favorite historical inaccuracy is The America represented by Disney's Davy Crockett movie. All white protestent all the time and the signifigant contributions of the other peoples are largely ignored. The chinese railroad workers, the African's who built the whitehouse, the catholics who founded a colony to escape persecution America has a hidden history that is rich and full and sadly unknown.

Mel Brooks doesn't overlook these contributions

[zraver]

Sad that the son of Jewish immigrants had to use satire to try and open the eyes of white America.

Most people have heard the rag time song "The Entertainer" most don;lt know it though, or know it was written by a blackman who also write the first African American opera, or that the opera did not get performed until a hal century after his death.

I wonder how many rednecks know that thier beloved Country and Western music no longer has much in common with its former Scots-irish roots and is now more closely related to mo-town.

Everyone has heard of Pearl Harbor, but few have heard of the biggest (in monetary cost) terorist attack till 9-11 (Black Tom Island), few know that the Statue of Liberty stands on a fortress built to guard liberty. Hell few strudents could define liberty as the founders understood it. Perhaps thats becuase few of them know that had they been in school a hundred years ago they would be learning Latin and other courses now increasingly limited to smaller and smaller parts of academia.

Our education system is a failure and it has created a void. sadly it is too often filled by Hollywood or the History Channel. A person can actually get better history from watching Ghost Hunters.

end rant

[Shek]

Here's the next error in the SCV video. When they talk of Northerner's invading the South, they use images from the Southern invasion of the North, and specifically, an image of the Rohrback Bridge, now referred to as Burnside's Bridge. Oops . . . I guess they forget to mention the South's invasion of the North.

[Shek]

Here's the last inaccuracy. The video claims that the South fought sometimes with odds 5:1. Technically, I'm sure that those examples exist. For example, during Grant's Vicksburg Campaign, his speed of maneuver and massing at the right time allowed his Army to overwhelm Confederate garrisons. Yet, he did this at a time when his Army had fewer troops than could be massed against him by the Confederates if they had been quicker, and so it doesn't qualify as fighting against overwhelming odds - it's fighting against overwhelming generalship.

This reference is surely made against this battlefield marker that can be found at Five Forks, where Lee's Petersburg line was finally stretched and broken on 1 April 1865.



Unfortunately, the odds were actually just 2:1

You can also throw in generalship, since Pickett, who was in charge of the Five Forks position, got caught enjoying a shad bake at the time of Sheridan's attack.



There's a handful of other things I could bring up that are distortionary from the video, but I'll just leave it at those three.

[Shek]

Before handing the thread to someone else for an example, I'll offer this video:



For the full length episode, here's a Google Video link, AssumeThePosition.mpg

[S2]

Kursk has to be one of the most amazingly overblown epics in modern warfare. Epic in any case, for different reasons both Soviet and Nazi propagandists needed an already monstrously large battle fought on multiple fronts and involving at least 1,000,000 men to assume mythic proportions.

Mythic was needed. Mythic, indeed, Kursk became. I remain fascinated by the battle and contend its truth is amazing enough. What was done, though, to elevate this battle to a flight of fantasy is a story in itself.

[Bigfella]

Fortunately I only paid a few dollars for this execrable doco. I knew I had done my dough early when, having skipped from WW2 to Dien Bien Phu in a sentence, the commentary informed us that the French placed the 'majority of their army' at Dien Bien Phu. That would make the total size of the French Army & allied forces in Indochina 20,000 (only 170,000 short of the actual French tally & closer to 380,000 short in total).

Amazon.com: Heart of Darkness: The Vietnam War Chronicles 1945-1975: Edward Feuerhard: Movies & TV

[bigross86]

Operation Nickel Grass: Many people believe that Israel would have lost in 1973 if not for the airlift. Truth is, the airlift's first plane landed 2 days after the IDF was already pushing back both the Egyptians and the Syrians. Granted, Israel would not have won the way it did without the airlift, and the materiel coming in on the airlift helped immensely, especially for the interim period after the war, but they would not have lost, either. At worst, Israel would have returned to it's pre-October 1973 lines, and then stalled.

[gunnut]

Mel Brooks doesn't overlook these contributions

My favorite quote from Blazing Saddles.

I can say that and not get in trouble

[Chogy]

Hmm... being a bit of a firearms geek, I cringe at historical presentations of the dreaded "Kentucky (sniper) rifle" as used in the American Revolution. "A uniquely American icon, the American long rifle was capable of much superior accuracy than the primitive Brown Bess Musket, and turned the tide of the war. There was nothing comparable in Europe."

Utter B.S. There WERE occasions where true America outdoorsmen used their rifles to advantage, but the vast bulk of the colonials used a smooth bored musket as well. many Charleville models and also captured British arms. Most Pioneers of the day preferred a smooth bore, as it could handle "Buck and Ball"; could be used for fowl or game. And European rifles had been around for centuries, were far more finely crafted and accurate than their crude Germanic-American counterparts.

Muskets were preferred because of their speed of loading, and they fit well with the standard military tactics.

British Major Ferguson invented a brilliant breech-loading rifle that would have given the British an upper hand in small arms, but Britain did not want to replace the Brown Bess (cost), and only a handful of Ferguson's were used by one unit in the Revolutionary war.

Ferguson rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Germany especially produced some exquisite Jaeger (hunting) rifles, and their influence was felt by German settlers in Pennsylvania. They mistakenly lengthened the barrel; the shorter Jaegers had adequate barrel length for black powder. Summary - European small arms technology was superior to (and pre-dated) the cherished "Kentucky" rifle.