Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Help me decide: H&K USP vs Sig Sauer P226

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Ah, wouldn't that be nice... I kinda like the MG tower every 1000 yards idea too. You probably wouldn't have a shortage of volunteers to man them, either!
    "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

    Comment


    • #62
      Agreed.

      I still think we need to bring the regular Army home and concentrate on our own borders, that's what everybody else does. Between the regular Army and the Reserves, we ought to be able to cover the border. And, yes, I'd volunteer to man a 240B; maybe beef it up with some Ma-deuce's and some AI Arctic Warfare's.
      "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

      Comment


      • #63
        Well I tried both and went with the Sig. A bit more mass (metal vs composite for the H&K) meant more manageable recoil, and as a relative newbie I was able to shoot better with it. The H&K would be better for carrying, but that wasn't enough to sway me.

        As a side note, the descriptions were a bit off. The H&K was not "lightly used", it had never even been fired until I christened it myself. The Sig on the other hand was owned by a DEA agent in its former life (bought by my father ~1993), and as such was used very heavily, though also cared for as you would expect from a federal agent.

        For how I have it set up for carry/home defense, I have two clips, each with alternating hardball & hollow point rounds. This was recommended to by father by a Maryland State Trooper who said hollow points are great until you want to hit someone through a door :)

        Comment


        • #64
          Modern bonded core JHPs will penetrate any interior door or wall, retain 100% weight, and most will still penetrate the FBI required 12"+ in gel.

          FMJs are tremendously over penetrating, especially in 9mm. The rounded nose versions also have extremely limited wounding power. In the vast majority of scenarios, they are a very poor choice for defense.
          Last edited by Bill; 08 Jan 11,, 10:15.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by ErrantVenture11 View Post
            Well I tried both and went with the Sig. A bit more mass (metal vs composite for the H&K) meant more manageable recoil, and as a relative newbie I was able to shoot better with it. The H&K would be better for carrying, but that wasn't enough to sway me.

            As a side note, the descriptions were a bit off. The H&K was not "lightly used", it had never even been fired until I christened it myself. The Sig on the other hand was owned by a DEA agent in its former life (bought by my father ~1993), and as such was used very heavily, though also cared for as you would expect from a federal agent.

            For how I have it set up for carry/home defense, I have two clips, each with alternating hardball & hollow point rounds. This was recommended to by father by a Maryland State Trooper who said hollow points are great until you want to hit someone through a door :)
            I have two clips for my HD handgun, the spare one has the more penetrating rounds (.40 S&W 180 grain CBHP), the primary clip in the gun has the 100 grain, red tip, extreme shock air safe rounds. I can change the clips pretty quick, but the most likely case in HD is short range with a direct line of sight and neighbor's houses or a family bedroom behind the target. I personally wouldn't consider mixing penetrating and non-penetrating rounds in the same stack.
            Last edited by USSWisconsin; 07 Jan 11,, 19:23.
            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

            Comment


            • #66
              You guys wouldn't have to do all this mixing and matching if you would just carry a .45 with 230g hollow points. Jeez, even my little bitty wife carries a kimber ultra 1911 with federal HPs.

              Bills right about that 9mm ball though. When the Army switched to the M-9 and MPs had to carry them in a law enforcement role the first shooting incident resulted in a child getting shot nearly a block away in a residence. The round went through some arm meat of the suspect and wasn't slowed down much. Its penetrated some vinyl siding, wood sheeting and a layer of drywall before striking the kid.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
                You guys wouldn't have to do all this mixing and matching if you would just carry a .45 with 230g hollow points. Jeez, even my little bitty wife carries a kimber ultra 1911 with federal HPs.
                Totally agree. I still say the best home defense weapon is an M1911A1 with hollow points; lots of damage on impact, and they don't go that far. Did your wife get her TLE in .45ACP or 9mm?
                "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

                Comment


                • #68
                  A .45? That would be a step down from our .40's. Mean S.O.B's they are.
                  I think the military is kind of stupid for bouncing back between the 9MM and the .45 with out slowing down to even try the .40.
                  Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                    A .45? That would be a step down from our .40's. Mean S.O.B's they are.
                    I think the military is kind of stupid for bouncing back between the 9MM and the .45 with out slowing down to even try the .40.
                    +1, the 40 is my favorite pistol round. Almost the speed of the 9mm and almost the weight of the 45.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      +1, the 40 is my favorite pistol round. Almost the speed of the 9mm and almost the weight of the 45.
                      I did a considerable amount of research, read about the FBI Miami shootout, lots of articles from many sources, and the posts from our august members. I think the .40 is just right, plenty of power, cheap enough to to shoot often enough to maintain the requisite skill level. I tried a .45 too, it was impressive, but the .40 was easier for me to shoot at the hydro-shock velocity I wanted. Still each person has a certain kind of gun that's just right for them, I respect each individual's decision. I'm sure the 9mm P7 and .45 1911 are equally well suited to Bill and 7thsfsniper too, given their shooting skills, I imagine their guns are even more deadly than mine, in their hands, but if someone broke into my home and threatened my daughter - I have a nice industrial mop and a wringer bucket to clean up. If they wanted a chance they could go somewhere else.

                      @ 25 yards this week at the range
                      Last edited by USSWisconsin; 08 Jan 11,, 07:12.
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        You guys gotta know I'm just givin ya some guff, but a few weeks ago, I had some new guests to the range and they always want to see this. I don't know how far away all those experts with TV shows do this, but I do it at least 45ft, and honestly, I don't always do it on the first shot, sometimes 1, sometimes 2 or three, one windy day it took 5, but anyway, this one took two at 50ft a couple months ago with the trusty old Randall 1911, .45.:)

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                          A .45? That would be a step down from our .40's. Mean S.O.B's they are.
                          I think the military is kind of stupid for bouncing back between the 9MM and the .45 with out slowing down to even try the .40.
                          9MM was to satisfy NATO standards, 40 didn't have a chance.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Stitch View Post
                            Totally agree. I still say the best home defense weapon is an M1911A1 with hollow points; lots of damage on impact, and they don't go that far. Did your wife get her TLE in .45ACP or 9mm?
                            Hers is the crimson carry ultra in .45.(Birthday present, she was very happy!) Matter of fact, there are four 1911 .45s complete, (and the fifth under construction) and one Colt Trooper MkIII in .357 and 2 FNP.45s in this house, no other pistol calibers. I sold my PK380 a couple months ago to the guy that watched me split that card above. He loves it and nothing makes me happier than to unite a gun and an enthusiastic owner.:)

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                              A .45? That would be a step down from our .40's.
                              :roflmao:

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I think the actual difference in terminal performance between top end premium 9mm+P+, .357 magnum, .357 Sig and .40 S&W is negligible vs 2 legged targets. I think you have to step up to .45 to get any real performance gains, but of course they come at a cost in other ares.

                                These cartridges are all a compromise.

                                I believe that the true determining factor in immediate stopping power is measured by the will to fight and the survival drive of the person you are shooting at.

                                At any rate, my chosen poison in my HK P7 9mm is Corbon Powrball at 1500fps and 500fpe of energy. In my .380- the caliber of the gun i actually carry 95% of the time- i am most partial to the Barnes Tac XP solid copper hollowpoint as loaded by both Corbon and Doubletap. It seems to offer clearly superior terminal performance to all other competitors in .380 at this time.

                                I also think that bullet selection is probably more important than caliber. Shot placement trumps both.
                                Last edited by Bill; 08 Jan 11,, 10:24.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X