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Corps to deploy M1A1 tanks to Afghanistan

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ShawnG View Post
    If the Rotary Winged Aviation community was in fact a family, the MH53 is Dad.
    I don't understand the point... Isn't the Chinook about the few helicopters that can operate well in Afghan high regions? The Chinook which the Army operates?

    I'm just saying that the Army seems to me is far better suited in Afghanistan.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
      This is overkill. If they need the sensors, why can't they mount the same sensors on a Humvee who has a guy sitting with a radio ready to call arty fire?
      The tank provides the sensor and the weapon in one package. If the USMC has or can use the army's battle management system you make the system even better. Not only can the tank see better than any other ground mounted system, and outgun any ground mounted system, it can do so with precision. For example, the Abrams can hit the homicide bombers/drug smugglers truck without detonating it (sabot through the motor), and in the midst of other traffic.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ShawnG View Post


        If the Rotary Winged Aviation community was in fact a family, the MH53 is Dad.
        Unfortunately, the MH isn't flown anymore, but the Corps has ordered an upgraded variant of the venerable -53 with 7,500 SHP engines; it should be a real beast!
        "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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        • #34
          I understand what you mean. Between the Chinook and Pave Low:

          CH47: 13 Ton payload, 18,500 feet ceiling, 400 mile range
          MH53: 10 Ton payload, 16,000 feet ceiling, 600 mile range

          Similar, but not the same. Could be problematic...especially when operating in the far NE of Afghanistan into the Hindu Kush... mountains are pretty tall up there.

          I just meant that the USMC has comparible equipment in many arenas--maybe not exact. But at the same time, I'm sure that form a logistical standpoint, the Army can support the USMC on the ground with their air assets.
          "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach...just make sure you thrust upward through his ribcage."

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          • #35
            Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
            Why isn't the army bringing it in? it seems to me that Afghanistan would be in Army's terf, not Marines. I mean the army has got all the equipment for afghanistan, from transport helicopters to bradleys to A-10s.

            The Army and the Marines each have a piece to play....the Army's role is bigger but the Marines also have a significant chunk of the battlespace.

            As has been said the Marines are taking over some of the mission the Canadians had.
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

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            • #36
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              The tank provides the sensor and the weapon in one package. If the USMC has or can use the army's battle management system you make the system even better. Not only can the tank see better than any other ground mounted system, and outgun any ground mounted system, it can do so with precision. For example, the Abrams can hit the homicide bombers/drug smugglers truck without detonating it (sabot through the motor), and in the midst of other traffic.

              X2. And Helmand has topography suited for tanks.
              Last edited by Red Seven; 22 Nov 10,, 21:24.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ShawnG View Post
                I understand what you mean. Between the Chinook and Pave Low:

                CH47: 13 Ton payload, 18,500 feet ceiling, 400 mile range
                MH53: 10 Ton payload, 16,000 feet ceiling, 600 mile range

                Similar, but not the same. Could be problematic...especially when operating in the far NE of Afghanistan into the Hindu Kush... mountains are pretty tall up there.

                I just meant that the USMC has comparible equipment in many arenas--maybe not exact. But at the same time, I'm sure that form a logistical standpoint, the Army can support the USMC on the ground with their air assets.
                The MV22 has a service ceiling of 26,000 feet, 870 nautical mile range, 20,000 lb payload. VMM261 brought it to Helmand last year. The Marines have the assets.
                Last edited by Red Seven; 22 Nov 10,, 21:22.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by ShawnG View Post
                  Similar, but not the same.
                  Even more so as you have to subtract a couple tons for armour and decent guns in the field that are not calculated into that... (German '53GS in the north carry nearly a ton extra kevlar and three GAU-21).

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ShawnG View Post
                    I understand what you mean. Between the Chinook and Pave Low:

                    CH47: 13 Ton payload, 18,500 feet ceiling, 400 mile range
                    MH53: 10 Ton payload, 16,000 feet ceiling, 600 mile range

                    Similar, but not the same. Could be problematic...especially when operating in the far NE of Afghanistan into the Hindu Kush... mountains are pretty tall up there.

                    I just meant that the USMC has comparible equipment in many arenas--maybe not exact. But at the same time, I'm sure that form a logistical standpoint, the Army can support the USMC on the ground with their air assets.
                    Marine Corps doesn't fly the MH-53. Thats a Navy Mine Countermeasure bird.

                    Marines fly the CH-53E which has a 16 ton lift capability

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                      Marine Corps doesn't fly the MH-53. Thats a Navy Mine Countermeasure bird.

                      Marines fly the CH-53E which has a 16 ton lift capability
                      Yes, the CH is still active; MH has been deactivated (where did the airframes go? AMARC?). CH-53K is scheduled to enter service in 2015.
                      "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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                      • #41
                        An M-1's sensors in an elevated overwatch position can dominate a LOOONG damned way...and do so in a 6400mil arc. That's a lot of turf in open country and it only needs a few feet of elevation to attain that advantage. Helmand and Nimroz is perfect turf.
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                        "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                        "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Stitch View Post
                          Yes, the CH is still active; MH has been deactivated (where did the airframes go? AMARC?). CH-53K is scheduled to enter service in 2015.

                          MH-53 hasn't been deactivated. They fly them all the time from The Panama City Navy base

                          The Corps never had them.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by S-2 View Post
                            ...and do so in a 6400mil arc.
                            For you lesser beings,(non Artillery types) I will translate. :)

                            "and do so in a 360 degree arc"

                            or

                            "and do so in a complete circle"
                            Last edited by Gun Grape; 23 Nov 10,, 12:34.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                              Marine Corps doesn't fly the MH-53. Thats a Navy Mine Countermeasure bird.

                              Marines fly the CH-53E which has a 16 ton lift capability
                              Roger Gunny, I stand corrected. Sea Dragon (USN), Pave Low (USAF), Super Stallion (USMC).

                              They're all '53's dammit! lol
                              "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach...just make sure you thrust upward through his ribcage."

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                                For you lesser beings,(non Artillery types) I will translate. :)

                                "and do so in a 360 degree arc"

                                or

                                "and do so in a complete circle"
                                Or for the Air Force types....over there, and over there, and over there, and over there, and over there.............
                                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                                Mark Twain

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