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US Prods Industry for F-22 Successor Ideas

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  • #31
    I believe the exciting advances are going to be in energy weapons and defensive systems. Think CIWS for jets using lasers. Got an Alamo missile inbound? No worries... the doppler signal is detected, the laser fires, and the missile explodes harmlessly out of range.

    Likewise, offensive energy weapons, perhaps mounted on a platform separate from the jet itself. Send a drone into a gaggle of enemy aircraft, and it processes the targets and begins to lance them one after another.

    Just fantasizing a bit. I cannot see unmanned platforms replacing manned jets for air to air work, but I can see them augmenting, being a tool.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Chogy View Post
      I believe the exciting advances are going to be in energy weapons and defensive systems. Think CIWS for jets using lasers. Got an Alamo missile inbound? No worries... the doppler signal is detected, the laser fires, and the missile explodes harmlessly out of range.

      Likewise, offensive energy weapons, perhaps mounted on a platform separate from the jet itself. Send a drone into a gaggle of enemy aircraft, and it processes the targets and begins to lance them one after another.

      Just fantasizing a bit. I cannot see unmanned platforms replacing manned jets for air to air work, but I can see them augmenting, being a tool.
      speaking of energey weapons....

      and i might move this to the F-35 thread, but wasnt that also one of the 'future' growth aspects of the F-35, taking the area were the lift is in the STOL variant, and using that, run off of the same shaft from the engine, to house and power some type of energy weapon.

      anyone know if that was ever explored? or if there are still plans too do so?

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      • #33
        I see the next generation or perhaps the one after that will, with some tweaks, look closer to the Cylon raider shape of the old battlestar Galactica series. It looks to be stealthy and lots of body lift. Civilians have been seeing "UFO's" such as this for decades. I think its time we let the cat out of the bag and put them in active duty. NCGD - Battlestar Galactica - Cylon Raider Starfighter
        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
          It's not that bad, but it just feels malproportioned to me, a little hydrocephalic.
          Yeah, true. Could use a little nip and tuck up front.

          Originally posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
          I was always a fan of the X-32, actually. Not a beauty by any means, but I've got a weakness for weirdos. The X-35 just seemed boring. A stubby nosed F-22 remix. Not that I disliked the F-22- I seem to be the only person on the planet who thinks the Raptor looks better than the YF-23...
          Also true IMO, the X-35 wasn't exactly pushing the edge with looks. But the X-32 was such a 3-bagger, it was almost painful to look at that intake

          The F-22 is definitely a thing of beauty but the YF-23 just looked so damn sweet n sleek.
          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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          • #35

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            • #36
              X-32: Happy plane is happy!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                X-32: Happy plane is happy!
                Just for you! :Dancing-Banana:

                Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                • #38
                  I'm sure that intake is stealthy as hell, what with shaping, RAM etc, but at first glance it looks like it'd give the X-32 an RCS like the broad side of a barn.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                  • #39
                    re: AI

                    To be fair by 2030 silicon fabrication technology should have maxed out at some under 10nm node, given current projections. The carbon based technology (graphene, diamond, etc.) they've been tinkering with should be quite mature if it proves to be a useful alternative.

                    Also to be fair Deep Blue was rated at 1 Trillion Operations per Second, via 32 32-bit POWER2 SC CPUs @ 157Mhz and 512 Chess processors, which by todays standards could probably easily be handled by a general purpose personal supercomputer using 2012 hardware.

                    Also to be fair Watson had 2,880 POWER7 processors cores @ 3.5 GHz & 45nm. If we scale that to 8nm and assume linear scaling, for convenience, that tends to indicate we should be able to have an equivalent computer in a 40th of the size (silicon area). That means that equivalent 2,880 processor cores went from being spread across 90 server boxes to something you could mount in a fighter ala F-22's setup with room to spare. Especially given latency should be drastically lower thanks to vastly faster interconnects, more stuff on a given die, potential for higher clocks, etc.

                    Though that doesn't say anything here or there on actually setting up an embedded flight control program working together with a sensor analysis system, and all analyzed by some kind of tactical analysis battery that's no more self awareness then the average toaster but could do what people really want from such a thing. On the other hand the UCAVs have been doing rather well with the first part since the early tests, and they weren't exactly packing the equivalent of IBM's Watson. The problem is though that the first part is the relatively easy part. Getting sensors able to analyze the opposing fighters movement and flight control algorithm countermaneuver to a superior position, rather then evading something activating the RWR, is a very big step beyond that, as is a good bit of groundwork. The potential of Terabytes upon Terabytes of RAM and over a thousand CPU processor cores backed by something along the lines of over a hundred thousand GPGPU cores should help with some of that though.
                    Last edited by FOG3; 10 Jan 12,, 03:11.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                      I'm sure that intake is stealthy as hell, what with shaping, RAM etc, but at first glance it looks like it'd give the X-32 an RCS like the broad side of a barn.
                      Fan's buried wayy deep in the fuselage, I think. The intake tunnel must be half the length of the plane.
                      I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

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                      • #41
                        Re: US Prods Industry for F-22 Successor Ideas

                        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        Oh I don't know, it's got a pretty sleek look to it...I love the YF-23/B-2 style engine troughs especially.
                        I also feel it is the most sleek and classy airplane ever designed. It looks like a plane a 'sculturer' would have designed!

                        Originally posted by Chogy View Post
                        Think CIWS for jets using lasers. Got an Alamo missile inbound? No worries... the doppler signal is detected, the laser fires, and the missile explodes harmlessly out of range.
                        Using lasers as CIWS has problems with high humidity, in particular clouds or fog! The USN and Soviet Navy have tried to use lasers as a CIWS, the original schedule operations was 1986. It was one of the early programs the USN had in the Strategic Defense Inititive -"Star Wars". Both navies gave up the project due to lack of progress in finding solutions for .
                        Neither navies was able to find a solution to fog in particular. If you pulse the laser, the first pulse will create a hole. The next pulse will go through the first hole and attempt to create a second hole. This process continues and after a few iterations of this, the ship has moved as well as the target, the few holes made are now diffusing the laser, the ineffectiveness of the laser pulse makes the potential weapon useless. I would prefer counter-measures such as the Nulka 'off-board' counter-measure system.
                        While the aegis/Standard missile have intercepted mach 3.0 sea skimming missiles, the kill rate is not as high as the Navy wants. Long range detection is a real problem and the only system the that can detect such a missile at long enough range to provide adequate time for the defense is the E-2C.

                        Originally posted by Chogy View Post
                        Likewise, offensive energy weapons, perhaps mounted on a platform separate from the jet itself.
                        What would be the power source for a laser that could damage an enemy aircraft? How large a platform would be needed for a system liked this to operate?

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                        • #42
                          We have come a long way since 1986 in terms of platform power systems, laser power output, size, and focusing ability. We still have a long way to go but we are getting closer. By 2030 timeframe, when a 6th gen is "supposed" to show up, the technology just might be ready.

                          U.S. Navy Laser Weapon Shoots Down Drones in Test [Video]: Scientific American

                          Maritime laser demonstrator: Test moves Navy step closer to lasers for ship self-defense

                          BBC News - Anti-aircraft laser unveiled at Farnborough Airshow

                          White Sands Testing New Laser Close-in Weapon System (CIWS)

                          Interesting stuff.
                          No One Kicks A$! Without Tanker Gas

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                          • #43
                            The red and blue lasers will make it easier to tell who's who at least.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by avon1944 View Post
                              What would be the power source for a laser that could damage an enemy aircraft? How large a platform would be needed for a system liked this to operate?
                              Naquadah generator ;)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                                Naquadah generator ;)
                                Nah, how about a naquadria generator. Go big or go home.
                                No One Kicks A$! Without Tanker Gas

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