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Thread: US Prods Industry for F-22 Successor Ideas

  1. #16
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    Here is the formal solicitation from the Department of the Air Force. It offers some more information on the possible capabilities.

    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=1

    "Of key interest to the Government is technology which is applicable to the following areas (these interest areas are not all inclusive and may change depending on the outcome of the CBA):

    a) Air Vehicle
    b) Vehicle/Sensor Protection
    c) Propulsion
    d) Warning and Situational Awareness
    e) Sensors
    f) Data Fusion
    g) Offensive/Defensive Systems
    h) Automatic Target Recognition (Ground and Air)
    i) Communications, Networks, and Data Links
    j) Kinetic Weapons
    k) Non-kinetic Weapons
    l) Electronic Warfare and Information Operations
    m) Secondary Power Generation, Storage and Management
    n) Thermal Management and Heat Rejection
    o) Human System Integration (HSI)
    p) Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) and Optionally Manned Systems"
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  2. #17
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    A hint at one of the concepts from LM:

    PICTURE: Lockheed reveals concept aircraft for post-F-22 replacement - The DEW Line

    "This concept originates from our Advanced Development Programs group called the Skunk Works®. The Skunk Works primary objective is to aggressively pursue next generation technology programs and conduct research and development that will allow it to rapidly respond to customer needs. U.S. 5th generation fighters are now operational with the F-22 in the USAF and F-35 soon to be operational for USAF, USN, USMC and our international partners. As with the 4th generation fighters (F-15, F-16, F-18), 5th Gen is poised for growth, and will go through a process of capability upgrades over their service lives. As such, they will be operationally relevant for decades to come. Even with that, it is time to start looking at the technologies that will provide the next quantum leap in capabilities for the next generation of fighters (IOC ~ 2030+). Simply removing the pilot from an aircraft or introducing incremental improvements in signature and range does not constitute a generational leap in capability. These improvements are already being looked at for our 5th generation fighters.

    Future fighter requirements are not set and will depend on assessments of future threats that may emerge in the 2030 time frame. Greatly increased speed, longer range, extended loiter times, multi-spectral stealth, ubiquitous situation awareness, and self-healing structures and systems are some of the possible technologies we envision for the next generation of fighter aircraft. Next generation fighter capabilities will be driven by game changing technological breakthroughs in the areas of propulsion, materials, power generation, sensors, and weapons that are yet to be fully imagined. This will require another significant investment in research and development from a standpoint of both time and money. We will continue to investigate technologies that demonstrate great promise, and work closely with our customers to define the future operational concepts and requirements that the next generation of fighter aircraft must fulfill."

    Top left image is a LM concept, top right image is one from Northrop, bottom image is one from Boeing. It's interesting to see how these very early concepts compare.
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    The LM concept looks like a paper airplane. Badass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    The LM concept looks like a paper airplane. Badass.
    Definitely the hottest of the three. Boeing comes up with another fat and weird looking concept...not quite as tubby as the X-32, or as oddball, but still...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Definitely the hottest of the three. Boeing comes up with another fat and weird looking concept...not quite as tubby as the X-32, or as oddball, but still...
    The Boeing plane looks like an upside down FB-22, but it gets one thing right: it's a two seater. My Walmart crystal ball says that at least some of the sixth gen fighters would have to have room for a UCAV coordination officer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    The Boeing plane looks like an upside down FB-22, but it gets one thing right: it's a two seater. My Walmart crystal ball says that at least some of the sixth gen fighters would have to have room for a UCAV coordination officer.
    Well that's an interesting concept...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Well that's an interesting concept...
    Actually, if you look at the Boeing concept art, it looks like the far a/c is the manned unit, and the near a/c is the UCAV; they are otherwise identical. My guess is the UCAV is being controlled by the GIB in the manned unit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    Actually, if you look at the Boeing concept art, it looks like the far a/c is the manned unit, and the near a/c is the UCAV; they are otherwise identical. My guess is the UCAV is being controlled by the GIB in the manned unit.
    Ah...I was a bit confused by that, actually, thought the near one must be upside down since I couldn't see the cockpit, but the shape didn't really make sense for that. Didn't realize one was a UCAV.
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    Looks like the Boeing proposal has canards.

    Who else is looking at sixth generation fighter tech?

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    I don't think they are canards, that's just the leading edge of the wing. The light makes it look like a canard. Look at the wing on the UCAV, it doesn't have canards
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    I always wonder with concept drawings how much of the detail is from actual engineers and how much is just what some artist or exec thinks looks cool...
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    "And it will cost a gazillion dollars, and the US will only aford 2 dozens, but maaaaan, it's awesome!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Definitely the hottest of the three. Boeing comes up with another fat and weird looking concept
    Oh I don't know, it's got a pretty sleek look to it...I love the YF-23/B-2 style engine troughs especially.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    ...not quite as tubby as the X-32, or as oddball
    Boy oh boy you said it. The first sketches of the proposed X-32 should've resulted in a bloody purge of the design team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Oh I don't know, it's got a pretty sleek look to it...I love the YF-23/B-2 style engine troughs especially.
    It's not that bad, but it just feels malproportioned to me, a little hydrocephalic.


    Boy oh boy you said it. The first sketches of the proposed X-32 should've resulted in a bloody purge of the design team.
    I was always a fan of the X-32, actually. Not a beauty by any means, but I've got a weakness for weirdos. The X-35 just seemed boring. A stubby nosed F-22 remix. Not that I disliked the F-22- I seem to be the only person on the planet who thinks the Raptor looks better than the YF-23...
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    The X-32 was just too damned ugly for me, but I also prefer the Raptor over the YF-23. It might just have something to do with the fact that I was absolutely addicted to an F-22 Raptor flight simulator when I was a kid. Hell, if I could find the disc and it would run on my laptop, I'd still be playing that game!
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