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  • #31
    I think the good officer was talking about:
    US, Russia etc. have searched for each others nuclear weapons for a long time now, to the point that it will be very difficult for pakistan to hide its missiles, bombs and warheads from them, (with satellites of various types, intelligence services, recon planes and all)

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    • #32
      Yes, i know that and also agree with that.

      But what were the reason the US let Pakistan develop a nuke if it was aware? Americans knew about that Pakistan was running a nuclear program but they underestimated its progress.
      And by the time they realized it has become operational, it was too late.
      sigpic

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Pak Nationalist View Post
        Yes, i know that and also agree with that.

        But what were the reason the US let Pakistan develop a nuke if it was aware? Americans knew about that Pakistan was running a nuclear program but they underestimated its progress.
        And by the time they realized it has become operational, it was too late.
        No, actually, the Americans over-estimated your progress. The Americans confronted the Chinese in the 80s and some even believe that they tested a nuke for you in the 90s. However, by your Musharraf's admittance, no nukes were operational until after the Kargil War.

        As to why they allow Pakistan to have the bomb. They didn't. They threaten you with sanctions if you did. Pakistan never admitted to having the bomb until the tests.
        Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 23 Nov 10,, 14:29.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          No, actually, the Americans over-estimated your progress. The Americans confronted the Chinese in the 80s and some even believe that they tested a nuke for you in the 90s. However, by your Musharraf's admittance, no nukes were operational until after the Kargil War.
          It is said that Pakistan's nukes were ready a long time before they were tested in 1998. Thats the reason Islamabad was able to respond within weeks to the Indian atomic tests. But there is no credible evidence of the tests in China.

          As to why they allow Pakistan to have the bomb. They didn't. They threaten you with sanctions if you did. Pakistan never admitted to having the bomb until the tests.
          Yes of coarse, and thats the reason why i say they didn't had the correct knowledge of Pakistan's nuclear program. If they had they would have never let it develop . And when they knew they could do nothing about it other then threatening.
          Last edited by Pak Nationalist; 23 Nov 10,, 15:03.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Pak Nationalist View Post
            It is said that Pakistan's nukes were ready a long time before they were tested in 1998. Thats the reason Islamabad was able to respond within weeks to the Indian atomic tests.
            Musharraf stated that your nukes were not deployable and given your tests were duds, it shows that there were still problems being ironed out, among them the fuse issues.

            Originally posted by Pak Nationalist View Post
            But there is no credible evidence of the tests in China.
            We know the Chinese turned down one Pakistani request to test their nuke but two American scientists claims to have witness Pakistani and Chinese collaboration on a CICH-4 test which was by then, an obsolete warhead for the Chinese. I personally have problems with a lot of other claims made by these 2 Americans but I will not deny nor accept their view other than to present them as food for thought.

            Originally posted by Pak Nationalist View Post
            Yes of coarse, and thats the reason why i say they didn't had the correct knowledge of Pakistan's nuclear program. If they had they would have never let it develop . And when they knew they could do nothing about it other then threatening.
            Nuclear weapons knowledge is not illegal for a non-NPT country. It's having nukes that tips you over the edge and at the time, Pakistan can legally claim not to have any nukes since they were in component form. I have issues with that claim.

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            • #36
              Would the Chinese even think about sharing the locations of Pakistani nukes with America?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                Would the Chinese even think about sharing the locations of Pakistani nukes with America?
                I don't think so. It would have to be an extremely desperate situation in which only the US has the just in time assets to act. I would expect the Chinese to have the just in time assets long before the Americans.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                  Would the Chinese even think about sharing the locations of Pakistani nukes with America?
                  i guess yes....just in the case , they fall in terrorists hand

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                    Moreover, China is just starting to build the third nuclear reactor in Pakistan and enacted a similar agreement to the "123" Agreement between US and India.
                    Err, are you sure about this ?

                    There was talk about this last June but it all went quiet subsequently.

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Not one brick has been laid and it was supposed to be laid 10 years ago.
                    Right

                    China pushes ahead Pakistan nuclear plant expansion

                    Thursday, 24 March 2011 11:19 Mohideen Mifthah

                    BEIJING, March 24 (Reuters) - China is committed to controversial plans to expand a Pakistan nuclear power plant using 1970s technology, and is preparing a new reactor to start up there soon, even after Japan's crisis triggered global alarm about atomic safety.

                    China's construction of reactors at the Chashma nuclear power plant in the Punjab region of Pakistan drew international unease well before a the earthquake and tsunami battered the 1970s vintage nuclear reactors in Japan, crippling cooling systems and causing radiation to leak into the surroundings.

                    Those worries could now multiply. But neither Beijing nor Islamabad is likely to cut short their nuclear embrace. China's nuclear ties with long-standing partner Pakistan have triggered unease in Washington, Delhi and other capitals worried about Pakistan's history of spreading nuclear weapons technology, its domestic instability, and the potential holes created in international non-proliferation rules.

                    Safety is also a major concern, as the reactors at Chashma, including the third and fourth units China has planned, are derived from designs dating back to the 1970s, said Mark Hibbs, an expert on atomic policy at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who has closely followed Chinese-Pakistani nuclear cooperation.

                    This means they have fewer safety features than the newer models Beijing will increasingly use for domestic nuclear plants.

                    “The oldest reactor (design) that China is building is this reactor in Pakistan. It's a very old design,” said Hibbs, who is based in Berlin and visited Pakistan this week.

                    “If China wants to help Pakistan build a reactor right now, they're locked into this design,”
                    Hibbs said in a telephone interview, citing patent restrictions and atomic export barriers that prevent China from selling more up-to-date designs abroad. The radiation leaks at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant are likely to raise new questions about whether China should pursue nuclear power expansion in volatile Pakistan, and whether it must first seek approval for planned reactors from other nuclear exporting states.

                    Beijing remained committed to Chashma, and would probably not seek a green light from a nuclear trade group, said Li Hong, a prominent Chinese nuclear expert. “There's no doubt that China will go ahead with Chashma, because this cooperation with Pakistan has such a long history,” said Li, Secretary General of the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, a government-sponsored think tank in Beijing that focuses on nuclear proliferation issues.

                    “China will absorb lessons about nuclear safety from Japan's problems, including for Chashma,” said Li.

                    A NUCLEAR SHOWCASE
                    China suspended approvals last week for new domestic nuclear plants. But reports on Chinese nuclear websites show work on Chashma continued after the calamity hit Japan.

                    On March 14, two days after Japan's earthquake, Chinese engineers helped run the first successful test for linking the new Chashma reactor unit to a power grid, according to Shanghai Nuclear Engineering Research and Design (www.snerdi.com.cn), which is helping build it.

                    Last month, the China National Nuclear Corp, the nation's dominant atomic company, held a two-day meeting to refine plans for work at Chashma in 2011, when the new, second reactor is due to go into service (www.cnnc.com.cn).

                    “In 2011, we will strive to bring the project into commercial operation two months ahead of schedule,” said the report from that meeting.

                    China's nuclear industry sees Chashma as a showcase of the country's ability to export reactors, a trade that Beijing hopes will grow. “Currently, we're still a blank in exporting large-scale, multi-megawatt nuclear power stations, apart from the Chashma 300-megawatt water pressurized nuclear power station,” Zhao Zhixiang, director of the science and technology committee of the Chinese Institute of Atomic Energy, told China Energy News, a Chinese-language paper, earlier this month.

                    “The key to becoming a nuclear energy power is to establish your own abilities and competitiveness,” he said.

                    “NO CAUSE FOR CONCERN”
                    Rivals India and Pakistan both possess nuclear arsenals and both refuse to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which would oblige them to scrap those weapons.

                    The International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations' nuclear watchdog agency, agreed in early March to Pakistan's request to safeguard the two new reactors planned for Chashma, a step that would allow the agency to help ensure nuclear material from the reactors is secure and not diverted into weapons-related programmes.

                    “There is no cause for concern regarding the safe operation of these plants,” a spokesman for the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) said of Chashma. “Any lessons learnt from the accidents in Japan will be implemented at our plants as well.”


                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Chashma was grandfathered.
                    This has been going back & forth since last year so it appears finally that chashma-3 & 4 will be built after all. Given its 1970s tech, there appears to be no problem with the NSG over this, the Chinese won't even bother to ask the NSG.

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                    • #40
                      Just long as no earthquakes bust the thing up.

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                      • #41
                        There was a reason for this design. This design allows Pakistan to produce more nukes using the waste given off by this kind of reactor.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          There was a reason for this design. This design allows Pakistan to produce more nukes using the waste given off by this kind of reactor.
                          This reactor is going to be used to generate electricity which is the need of the hour right now, Khushab reactor which is online now is going to be used to produce plutonium.

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                          • #43
                            There is evidence that the Pak nuclear program is expanding but I am very hesitant to state that it's going into the Pu field. Pu bombs need testing. There is no ifs about that.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                              There is evidence that the Pak nuclear program is expanding but I am very hesitant to state that it's going into the Pu field. Pu bombs need testing. There is no ifs about that.
                              We have been talking about this point for over a year now Sir.
                              How is Pak marching ahead with it's Pu production when they have not tested a Pu bomb?

                              Also most western estimates on the size of Pak arsenal is based on the Pu it is producing or will produce from Khushab.

                              The Jigsaw is not fitting in.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Yusuf View Post
                                We have been talking about this point for over a year now Sir.
                                How is Pak marching ahead with it's Pu production when they have not tested a Pu bomb?

                                Also most western estimates on the size of Pak arsenal is based on the Pu it is producing or will produce from Khushab.

                                The Jigsaw is not fitting in.
                                No Pu bomb has been built yet. At best, they have enough for one bomb which is insufficient for testing.

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