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Was Caio Duilio a Battleship or an ironclad?

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  • Was Caio Duilio a Battleship or an ironclad?

    The Italians surpised the world by building the mighty Caio Duilio (laid down 1873, launched in 1876, commissioned in 1880) at 12,265 tons displacement, 358'x65'x29', she carried four 17.72" 100 ton MLR guns in two twin turrets. Her armor was wrought iron up to 21.7" thick (550mm) and her maximum speed was 15 knots.

    Many authors called this ship an ironclad, do you think she was an ironclad or a predreadnought battleship?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian...ad_Caio_Duilio

    http://www.marina.difesa.it/storia/a...2/navi0203.asp
    Attached Files
    3
    Ironclad
    66.67%
    2
    Battleship
    33.33%
    1

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 06 Oct 10,, 19:27.
    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  • #2
    while she was a "battleship" she was also an Iron clad.. since she didn't use steel armor that later battleships used..

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dundonrl View Post
      while she was a "battleship" she was also an Iron clad.. since she didn't use steel armor that later battleships used..
      I see your point.

      What are your thoughts on compound armor? Does that count as steel?
      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
        I see your point.

        What are your thoughts on compound armor? Does that count as steel?
        well, I'm assuming you mean armor such as on the M1 Abrams (Chobham armor).. since no post dreadnaught battleship had anything approaching this (even the last battleship, the USS Missouri, she was completed after your name sake the Wisky) didn't have composite armor, but used steel..

        If we were building BB's today with composite armor, I'd have to rethink my statement, but luckily (or unluckily for those that would love to have big gun BB's today) we don't..

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        • #5
          No I was referring to the early armor made by welding a steel face plate to wrought iron backing - the type used by HMS Colossus 1886.

          Compound armour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


          1204. Compound armor.-Thus resulted a new type of armor-the compound type-the two principal examples of which were the Wilson Cammel compound plate in which an open-hearth steel face was cast on top of a hot wrought iron back plate, and the Ellis-Brown compound plate in which a steel face plate was cemented to an iron back plate by pouring molten Bessemer steel between them. In both these processes, which were English, the plates were rolled after compounding. For the next ten years there was no especial development in armor manufacture other than minor improvements in the technique of manufacture, and great competition and controversy existed as to the relative quality of all-steel and compound armor. The all-steel armor was a simple steel of about .30 per cent to .40 per cent carbon, while the steel face of the compound armor contained between .50 per cent and .60 per cent carbon. These two classes of armor, their comparative value depending largely on the skill with which they were made, were approximately 25 per cent superior to their wrought iron predecessor, that is to say- a 10-inch all-steel or compound plate would resist the same striking energy that a 12.6-inch iron plate would withstand.
          http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/ARMOR-CHAPTER-XII-A.html
          Last edited by USSWisconsin; 06 Oct 10,, 22:15.
          sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
          If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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          • #6
            hmmmm, good question, since ships that used composite armor were closer to the contemporary battleships of the turn of the century, than the iron clads of the 1870's... I honestly don't know what I'd call them, since they were right at the transition period from iron clad battleships to pre-dreadnaught battleships..

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            • #7
              I would say she was NOT a pre-dreadnought since she lacked the characteristic medium caliber secondary battery and only a small number of tertiary armament.
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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              • #8
                Benendetto Brin designed a series of big Italian battleships the Duilio was the first, the next one Italia commissioned 1885 (and Lepanto) were faster and more lightly armored, had a steel hull, compound armor and had slightly smaller but longer 17"/26 guns - but could carrry an infantry division. This was followed by Ruggiero di Lauria (3 ships) an improved Duilio with 17"/27 guns, steel hull and steel Creusot armor. They both had 150mm secondary batteries.
                Last edited by USSWisconsin; 09 Oct 10,, 18:27.
                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                  I would say she was NOT a pre-dreadnought since she lacked the characteristic medium caliber secondary battery and only a small number of tertiary armament.
                  Duilio had three x 120mm secondary guns and 2 x 3", 8 x 6 Pdr and 22 x 3 Pdr batteries as well - I know it a small secondary battery compared to many - sort of an all big gun arrangement 30 years early.
                  sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                  If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                  • #10
                    IMO, she would be a hybrid, A Dreadnought would have all the same size main battery as she does. But she also has iron based armor instead of steel, Iron being both heavier and weaker then steel may explain why the armor was so thick. Many were still using Cellulose based protection in the belt sections in the beginning of the 20th century including the USN.
                    Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Oct 10,, 15:41.
                    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                    • #11
                      Isn't anyone going to vote?

                      Really it won't count against you in anyway ;), if you have an opinion a vote would help me out :whome:
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                      • #12
                        Battleship? No way! It was armed with muzzle loader's for Pete's sake!
                        Last edited by surfgun; 10 Oct 10,, 00:46.

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