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Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

  1. #61
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Fletchers v Tribal Firepower

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldmike View Post
    Would anyone care to compare the utility, performance, firepower etc. of the Fletchers with the roughly contemporaneous British Tribal Class (with the six 4.7inch main armament)?
    Tribal Armament: As designed: 8 x 4.7 inch QF Mark XII (L/45)
    Fletcher Armament: As designed: 5 × single 5 inch/38 caliber guns

    Seems the Tribal class was capable of getting more steel airborne ?

    But if you added dual mount 5-inchers wouldn't the correct ship be a Sumner Class Destroyer for an equal comparison?
    Last edited by blidgepump; 26 Oct 10, at 04:36.

  2. #62
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    But the Tribal mounts were LA types - not very useful for AA, and had a ROF of about 10 rpm, while the 5"/38 was DP and could fire at about twice the rate ~20 rpm, so the Tribals acutally put less steel in the target (~60 vs ~ 100 per minute max), and not much against aircraft, except possibly torpedo planes coming in on the deck.


    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_47-45_mk9.htm
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.htm
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 26 Oct 10, at 06:08.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
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  3. #63
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    But the Tribal mounts were LA types - not very useful for AA, and had a ROF of about 10 rpm, while the 5"/38 was DP and could fire at about twice the rate ~20 rpm, so the Tribals acutally put less steel in the target (~60 vs ~ 100 per minute max), and not much against aircraft, except possibly torpedo planes coming in on the deck.


    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_47-45_mk9.htm
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.htm
    Reading the dialogue from both websites leaves one with the conclusion that the 5-inch 38 cal Mk XXII could of saved quite a few British Tribal class ships.

  4. #64
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Reading the dialogue from both websites leaves one with the conclusion that the 5-inch 38 cal Mk XXII could of saved quite a few British Tribal class ships.
    I agree, if they took the whole system, with FC and mounted it on the them. As ships the Tribals seemed to be excellent sea boats and generally fine ships, perhaps better suited to North Sea opps than the Fletcher - which was optimized for the the Pacific.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    The Tribal class has similar features to the pre Fletcher - Farragut-class destroyer.

  6. #66
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Farragut Class DD

    Here is the Farragut class DD I didn't add in the previous post. :snore:

  7. #67
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Continuing the inspection tour..... Kamikaze hits the Kidd !!!

    As the tour passes the 51 & 52 mount we past the starboard breakwater, site of the 11 April 1945 Kamikaze hit. "The plane hit just below the main deck, starboard side, in the forward fireroom, between the boilers. The boilers ruptured, killing every man in that compartment (the steam was near 800º). The plane piled up in the wreckage, but the bomb it was carrying was catapulted through the ship, piercing the port side hull and exploding just outside the ship. Remember that battleships and larger vessels often had close to a foot of armor on their sides. Destroyers like the KIDD—"tin cans"—had only ⅜-inch of plating."
    Source USS KIDD Veterans Memorial -- Ship Virtual Tour

    The Kamikaze hit below captain's gig pictured in the illustration provided below

  8. #68
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Kamikaze Strike zone

    This illustration offers the reader the Kamikaze pilots view of the 11 April 1945 attack on the USS Kidd.
    Last edited by blidgepump; 27 Oct 10, at 18:46.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    As the tour passes the 51 & 52 mount we past the starboard breakwater, site of the 11 April 1945 Kamikaze hit. "The plane hit just below the main deck, starboard side, in the forward fireroom, between the boilers. The boilers ruptured, killing every man in that compartment (the steam was near 800º).
    Actually on a 600lb system, the main steam temperature is closer to 840-850 degrees. I've been in a fireroom when the packing blew out on a main steam valve in the upper level. The space fills with steam immediately. Someone secured the steam right away and everyone was ok. I happened to be in the upper level at the time. I would have preferred to have been in the lower level so I could have jumped in the bilge.

    The steam cut a pinhole through the insulation pad. A sailor ran his hand over the hole and said "Yup, the steam is secured." People check steam leaks with a broom because if the steam is still live, it would cut the fingers off a human hand. My partner and I watched the sailor do the dumb thing and decided it was time to go out on the pier and get a cup of coffee.
    Last edited by Ytlas; 27 Oct 10, at 18:58.

  10. #70
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    There is a Tribal class a.k.a. Afirdi class destroyer perserved in Canada HMCS Haida in Hamilton Harbor, Ontario
    These final ships had 4" HA guns instead of the 4.7" LA types on the earlier ships
    Interestingly no ship was called Tribal, they were all named after "tribes" which would probably be called racist today
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_...estroyer_(1936)

    Great pictures and great thread - thanks.
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 28 Oct 10, at 02:48.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  11. #71
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlas View Post
    Actually on a 600lb system, the main steam temperature is closer to 840-850 degrees. I've been in a fireroom when the packing blew out on a main steam valve in the upper level. The space fills with steam immediately. Someone secured the steam right away and everyone was ok. I happened to be in the upper level at the time. I would have preferred to have been in the lower level so I could have jumped in the bilge.

    The steam cut a pinhole through the insulation pad. A sailor ran his hand over the hole and said "Yup, the steam is secured." People check steam leaks with a broom because if the steam is still live, it would cut the fingers off a human hand. My partner and I watched the sailor do the dumb thing and decided it was time to go out on the pier and get a cup of coffee.
    Ytlas, your recital about the power of "invisable steam" reminded me of our local power plant starting up for the first time a few months back. Two millwrights were seriously injuried when they walked pass a "leaking high pressure line". The lucky part for them that the leak was ankle height rather than shirt collar.

  12. #72
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Photo must of been taken on a warm spring day. No leaves on the trees.... ;^)

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Ytlas, your recital about the power of "invisable steam" reminded me of our local power plant starting up for the first time a few months back. Two millwrights were seriously injuried when they walked pass a "leaking high pressure line". The lucky part for them that the leak was ankle height rather than shirt collar.
    "Kamikaze Warfare — The Aft Fireroom"



    This veteran was cool under pressure, too when the Kamikaze struck the USS Kidd

    "When the kamikaze hit, I was Watertender in charge of Number 2 Fireroom. I had seven or eight men under me. I gave the orders in the fireroom. You had to know about boilers and such.



    When the ship was hit, we felt the bulkhead bulge and I saw a spark of light coming through the bulkhead, which I believe was electrical lines. Immediately, I tried to contact Number 1 Fireroom. See if I could raise anyone. Well, not immediately, really, 'cause I knew at the time that the ship was hit. For a couple of seconds I was frozen. The men in Number 2 Fireroom were all looking at me—me being in charge—to see what I was going to do. Maybe a minute, maybe less. I can't remember. But then I started issuing orders to the men: you, stand by here ... you, stand by there ... and so forth. I had two men on the crossover valve, and I sent one man to open up the bypass valve to heat the steam line. It usually takes about three minutes. If you transfer steam in a cold line, it would blow up the line. So you have to turn the bypass line on first, to heat up the line and make it expand. And then, when I got orders to transfer, I was ready. I was twenty [years old] then. I'd been in the Navy [for] two and a half years. I called the bridge and I said, "This is the aft fireroom. What are your orders? I'm ready to transfer the steam to Number 1 Engineroom." I had been bypassing the steam, heating the steam lines to Number 1 Engineroom, and I was awaiting orders to open up the crossover valve. So I got orders to do it. I just had men stationed in the right place when it was needed." Quote by Watertender 2nd class Amelio P. Juliano

  14. #74
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    ^ US Damage control, best in the business - Guys like Amelio won that war...

    BTW, I asked what the broom was for when I was in the engine room on BB64, they told me the same story about live steam
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  15. #75
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Checked with broomsticks. Never go anywhere without one, especially near the Main Steam supply systems.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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