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Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    There is an old sailor that lives 1/2 mile down the road. A Kansas kid who joined the Navy late in the war. He was assigned to a Sumner class destroyer. I remember the model of his ship displayed in a glass case and I always coveted it as a child. I stopped by to visit the old man a year ago to pick his brain about his experience on board. He replied that the extra guns made the Sumner class bow heavy resulting in the ship's poor handling.

    I asked if he had considered staying in the Navy. He replied that he had but after the war ended all the officers returned to a peacetime navy attitude. In an attempt to get him to define what he meant by peacetime attitude, he only replied that it was little to crisp for him to say in as an enlisted man ????

    In reference to GG's recital of LTC Evans turning the USS Johnson toward a superior naval force, what can one say?
    Obviously the Commander knew the abilities of his ship and was determine to open a great big can of whoop a - - !!

    Looking at the size of the screws and the power of B & W boilers on a Fletcher I recently read a passage on another website of a sailor knowing in a instant that the enemy had been sighted... the give away was the sound coming from the updrafts and the taletell event to follow of more steam being produced.
    Last edited by blidgepump; 16 Oct 10, at 16:05.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Looking at the size of the screws and the power of B & W boilers on a Fletcher I recently read a passage on another website of a sailor knowing in a instant that the enemy had been sighted... the give away was the sound coming from the updrafts and the taletell event to follow of more steaming being produced.
    You can generally hear the forced draft blowers start winding up as the ship increases power. You can also see black smoke coming out of the funnels for a bit as they kick in more burners on the boilers.

  3. #33
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    I recently read a passage on another website of a sailor knowing in a instant that the enemy had been sighted... the give away was the sound coming from the updrafts and the taletell event to follow of more steaming being produced.
    Reminds me of racking a pump shotgun, the sound of combat readiness
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    The Kidd has the "Late war" AA mod. Forward torpedo tubes removed for the gun director towers and quad 40s. That program started in Apr 45. Eventually about 50 Fletchers recieved the mod but by wars end only about 8 made it to the combat zone.
    Personally, i prefer the German 60s mod instead of that one. Had the midship 5-inch replaced by gun director tower, forward torpedo tubes replaced by two Mk33 twin 3-inch instead. Then slapped another Mk33 twin 3-inch behind the gun director (instead of the 40mm there), added two single ASW torpedo tubes on the sidelines (for Mk44), replaced the forward 40mm with two Hedgehogs and finally rearraigned the DC rails and launcher systems into two combination DC/mine rails with capacity for a decent minefield.

    Served that way till the 80s, then till the 90s for Greece. Was still a bit underarmed for its purpose in Germany - the four remaining 5-inchers were all needed as they could only throw up max 90 rpm combined, whereas on the then-contemporary Cologne class the two french METL53 threw up 120 rpm of 100mm (and the real destroyers in the German Navy also had four turrets at the time, albeit doing 240 rpm combined...). And without getting rid of more of the 5-inchers (as was done in the US postwar) you couldn't mount the quintessential weapon of the day, the Bofors quad 375mm ASW rocket launcher.

    German sailors hated them btw. Too cramped compared to newer builds.

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlas View Post
    You can generally hear the forced draft blowers start winding up as the ship increases power. You can also see black smoke coming out of the funnels for a bit as they kick in more burners on the boilers.
    Ytlas a question about the FD's.... are they steam powered or electric?



    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22657.../> ADVANTAGES OF THE BABCOCK & WILCOX BOILER

    " The advantages of the Babcock & Wilcox boiler may perhaps be most clearly set forth by a consideration, 1st, of water-tube boilers as a class as compared with shell and fire-tube boilers; and 2nd, of the Babcock & Wilcox boiler specifically as compared with other designs of water-tube boilers.

    Capacity—Due to the generally more efficient circulation found in water-tube than in fire-tube boilers, rates of evaporation are possible with water-tube boilers that cannot be approached where fire-tube boilers are employed.

    Quick Steaming—Another important result of the better circulation ordinarily found in water-tube boilers is in their ability to raise steam rapidly in starting and to meet the sudden demands that may be thrown on them.

    In a properly designed water-tube boiler steam may be raised from a cold boiler to 200 pounds pressure in less than one-half hour."
    Last edited by blidgepump; 16 Oct 10, at 16:01.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Ytlas a question about the FD's.... are they steam powered or electric?

    Steam powered (Aux steam). There are two styles, vertical and horizontal FDB's that provide air to the boilers for combustion and for cooling the casings. There are usually two per boiler. The Iowa class battleships, Tarawa class LHA's and Knox class frigates (for example) have horizontal models. The destroyers usually had the vertical models, so if you saw one with "2B1" sprayed on the casing, it would the FDB in #2 Fireroom, B boiler, starboard side.

    Come to think of it, on the Tarawa class LHA's there was also an electric "PUF" (Port Use Fan) used when lighting off the boiler. I'm not sure how many other classes of ships used the "PUF."
    Last edited by Ytlas; 16 Oct 10, at 19:07.

  7. #37
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Pausing to gather more knowledge for Ytlas

    Ytlas,
    The Kidd is well maintained but access is not permitted to the areas shown in the attached jpeg. To follow up on the information provided about the FD's, the second jpeg displays an area on the ( i think is was the starboard side amidships ) USS Kidd that proved to spark my attention. Were these external valves to throttle the boilers if something went wrong in the engine room?
    Last edited by blidgepump; 17 Oct 10, at 22:19.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Ytlas,
    The Kidd is well maintained but access is not permitted to the areas shown in the attached jpeg. To follow up on the information provided about the FD's, the second jpeg displays an area on the ( i think is was the starboard side amidships ) USS Kidd that proved to spark my attention. Were these external valves to throttle the boilers if something went wrong in the engine room?
    If that's the bulkhead on the engine room then on the other side should be the bulkhead stop valves. The two top ones should be to the SSTG's (which run on main steam) and the two middle ones are main steam to the main engines.

    Also in the engine room, usually above the throttle board is the throttle valve which can be closed. In the fireroom at the back of the boiler is the main steam stop valves which can shut the main steam off at the boiler.

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Ytlas - FD No. 1 as shown in builder's model

    [QUOTE=blidgepump;762839]Ytlas a question about the FD's.... are they steam powered or electric?


    Ytlas,

    The builder's model for the Fletcher's sans hull and bulkheads offered the best illustration of what would be observed is access was permitted inside the Kidd's engine room.

    When major overhaul was attempted for the larger parts.... did they just cut a hole in the hull ?

  10. #40
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    [QUOTE=blidgepump;762979]
    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Ytlas a question about the FD's.... are they steam powered or electric?


    Ytlas,

    The builder's model for the Fletcher's sans hull and bulkheads offered the best illustration of what would be observed is access was permitted inside the Kidd's engine room.

    When major overhaul was attempted for the larger parts.... did they just cut a hole in the hull ?
    They cut "Access holes" in the hull so they can take out machinery. They weld "Pad eyes" on the side of the hull above the hole and put on a "Patio." On the Adams Class DDG's, they'd cut the access hole in the engine room through the lube oil storage tank and out the hull.

    After looking at your "Builder's Model" I just had to dig out a couple of my Destroyer books. I didn't know that back then they put the DFT in the engine room. Interesting.

    I've never seen a FDB like that. It's tiny. The boiler picture, I recognize that it's the upper level and the steam drum in the background but that's it.

    BTW, I was an insulator by trade. I insulated the valves, piping and machinery. If there's a BT or MM handy on this board I'd welcome any imput.
    Last edited by Ytlas; 17 Oct 10, at 23:21.

  11. #41
    Military Professional dundonrl's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=blidgepump;762979]
    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Ytlas a question about the FD's.... are they steam powered or electric?


    Ytlas,

    The builder's model for the Fletcher's sans hull and bulkheads offered the best illustration of what would be observed is access was permitted inside the Kidd's engine room.

    When major overhaul was attempted for the larger parts.... did they just cut a hole in the hull ?
    I know when the modern Navy has to remove major parts on it's modern warships, they cut holes in the sides of em, remove everything out of the way and replace the parts.. (this was done on my ship, the Halsey after one of her main reduction gears was heavily damage and had to be replaced)

  12. #42
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    Reduction Gear on Fletcher Class Destroyer

    [QUOTE=dundonrl;763028]
    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post

    I know when the modern Navy has to remove major parts on it's modern warships, they cut holes in the sides of em, remove everything out of the way and replace the parts.. (this was done on my ship, the Halsey after one of her main reduction gears was heavily damage and had to be replaced)
    The builder's model of the Fletcher Class on display in Baton Rouge offers to the observer the appreciation for the lack of space to move any one piece of equipment without relocating all other equipment before starting on the original task.

    The attachment illustrates the relationship of a reduction gear on a Fletcher to "other stuff" in the vicinity, i.e., frames, braces, piping, etc...

  13. #43
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    [QUOTE=blidgepump;763203]
    Quote Originally Posted by dundonrl View Post

    The builder's model of the Fletcher Class on display in Baton Rouge offers to the observer the appreciation for the lack of space to move any one piece of equipment without relocating all other equipment before starting on the original task.

    The attachment illustrates the relationship of a reduction gear on a Fletcher to "other stuff" in the vicinity, i.e., frames, braces, piping, etc...
    You take a space like that and jam about 20 yardbirds from various trades doing last minute work or working on discrepancies for a couple of days before the LOE (Light Off Examination). Good times...

  14. #44
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Just a little slice of heaven...

    [QUOTE=Ytlas;763208]
    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post

    You take a space like that and jam about 20 yardbirds from various trades doing last minute work or working on discrepancies for a couple of days before the LOE (Light Off Examination). Good times...
    Ytlas,

    I try to imagine 20 workers below deck on an aging warship on a warm sunny day in Southern California in a small confined resonating space built out of steel, using grinders, impact wrenches, cutting torches, and delicate computer measuring devices with inspectors spreading "D" size sheets of paper interpreting shop drawings....... goodness that must be a little slice of heaven.

  15. #45
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    [QUOTE=blidgepump;763348]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlas View Post

    Ytlas,

    I try to imagine 20 workers below deck on an aging warship on a warm sunny day in Southern California in a small confined resonating space built out of steel, using grinders, impact wrenches, cutting torches, and delicate computer measuring devices with inspectors spreading "D" size sheets of paper interpreting shop drawings....... goodness that must be a little slice of heaven.
    At the late stage of overhaul with deadlines, the people are mainly doing small jobs. You'll have electricians checking things, pipefitters maybe still working on a system with their welder right there to do some hangars. The marine machinists will be checking pumps the boilermakers will be doing last second checks on the boilers or tending to deck plates. The painters will be doing their last second touch ups, we insulators will be doing our thing and the ship's crew will be doing their last minute training in the space.

    In the earlier parts of the overhaul you'll have more trades, but a lot less people in the space. That's when you'll have the grinders, sparks from welding or carbon arcing, plus some of the adhesives we'd use to get people high as kites......

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