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  • Ring those bells ....

    Originally posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    FlankDestroyer sure has provided a great explanation and so have you bbvet! Very enlightening. With bilgepump Picture it gives a pretty well rounded explanation. One thing for sure I spent a long time in the navy a decades ago and I see that I spent way to much time below the main deck! Wow! .
    Now I just realized something.. who on board actually ever heard the QM ring the ship's bell noting the watch?

    Snipes obviously couldn't hear squat in a Fletcher Engine Room. I never really addressed the topic before. absently I just thought it was broadcast of the address system. And BM9's recital of standing a 6 hour watch,, ( Yes the bell gets rang every :30 minutes in theory ) does the O.T. show up n your paycheck [ smile ] ???

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    • Originally posted by blidgepump View Post
      Now I just realized something.. who on board actually ever heard the QM ring the ship's bell noting the watch?

      Snipes obviously couldn't hear squat in a Fletcher Engine Room. I never really addressed the topic before. absently I just thought it was broadcast of the address system. And BM9's recital of standing a 6 hour watch,, ( Yes the bell gets rang every :30 minutes in theory ) does the O.T. show up n your paycheck [ smile ] ???
      Thanks bilgepump. I remember the bell and bos’n piping revely, chow, knock off, and taps, over the 1mc if I recall correctly underway. I think we did the bell, for the above and for colors, and for dignitaries coming and leaving the ship in port. I remember ringing 8bells at 1200. Not sure we did it all the time as each port had their restrictions so not sure but I know we did do that at times. If there was a BM on duty who knew how to blow the pipe he would chime in, however in port it was mostly the bell and a 1mc announcement Except for dignitaries I think we left the topside and officers country speakers off in port. Not sure, as this snipe is talking from his deck watch experience, of many years ago!
      Perhaps I should explain when the navy went to 6 section duty state side snipes went up on deck and learned the protocols. I had previous expereance being on that tender. However by the time I became OD I still had a hard time with it ...tended to get into trouble with the CDO on a daily bases! My punishment for “the Roach Coach is Makin it’s Approach” over the Officers and topside speakers was perminant Mid Watch! Guess I was a renigade! But what fun it was!
      Last edited by Boilermaker9; 19 Jul 18,, 15:04.

      Comment


      • BM9 wrote:
        My punishment for “the Roach Coach is Makin it’s Approach” over the Officers and topside speakers was permanent Mid Watch! Guess I was a renegade! But what fun it was!
        I remember that 1MC announcement as being "the roachcoach is on the pier" - and the PO of the Watch always denying to the OD that he was the one who made the announcement. LOL!!!

        But, yes - I heard the same statistic of 20 minutes life for a typical FLETCHER class DD in combat (WWII era obviously). Of course, during NBC Warfare trainng we ALWAYS survived the multi-nuclear attacks by the Ruskies. Yea, RIGHT!!!!!!

        Bilge pump - topside the 1MC could be hearing chiming the bells every 30 minutes and at watch changes. The Bosun's Pipe was normally used to pipe down (announce) Reveille, Chow, Quarters, GQ, CO arriving/departing, Taps, and Lights Out - dignitaries (Flag officers, etc.) usually got the Sideboys and the bosun's piping on or off board the ship. Any other evolution was generally an announcement over the 1MC by the quarterdeck watch (PO or OD) - announcing loading parties, work details, etc. Never a dull moment!!!!

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        • Originally posted by bbvet View Post
          BM9 wrote:


          I remember that 1MC announcement as being "the roachcoach is on the pier" - and the PO of the Watch always denying to the OD that he was the one who made the announcement. LOL!!!

          But, yes - I heard the same statistic of 20 minutes life for a typical FLETCHER class DD in combat (WWII era obviously). Of course, during NBC Warfare trainng we ALWAYS survived the multi-nuclear attacks by the Ruskies. Yea, RIGHT!!!!!!

          Bilge pump - topside the 1MC could be hearing chiming the bells every 30 minutes and at watch changes. The Bosun's Pipe was normally used to pipe down (announce) Reveille, Chow, Quarters, GQ, CO arriving/departing, Taps, and Lights Out - dignitaries (Flag officers, etc.) usually got the Sideboys and the bosun's piping on or off board the ship. Any other evolution was generally an announcement over the 1MC by the quarterdeck watch (PO or OD) - announcing loading parties, work details, etc. Never a dull moment!!!!
          after reading through these replies I do now recall the bell over the 1 mc but why I did not remember that I do not know... perhaps it is an age related thing! But thanks for shaking my memory!

          A couple of things I came across this image of a third class with a torch ostensibly lighting of a boiler. I do not believe it is a destroyer as the firing alley is to wide and the ladder is in the wrong orientation. I was in a fireroom similar to this oh an LPD. however not sure this is an lpd. The signifigance of this image is that back in the day safety was not as much if a concern as it is today. We were all mature enough to take care of ourselves I guess. One time having the hair removed from your fore arm while lighting off the superheater and one learns to we are some kind of protection or having the casing jump out at you after lighting off from the back wall and one learns not to do that. that sort of thing. I know in the eighties a fireman was decked out in welders selves and vest sign appropriate mask and gloves before lighting he torch. How times changed in 20 years!Click image for larger version

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ID:	1476970 As you can see it is a stark difference. both images I found on the internet I do not believe there are any copyright issues with them. Being a product of the 60's I can relate to the unprotected third short selves and all! looking back it is amazing we survived! We did though!
          Last edited by Boilermaker9; 23 Jul 18,, 19:12.

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          • Typically as regards the enlisted bridge watch standers (save the QM), the BMOW ran the rotation schedule. While it may have been driven by a set schedule at times more often it was driven by training demands, weather, competence and or the current operations. Occasionally the OOD would get involved if the watch standers were not performing up to par.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by FlankDestroyer View Post
              Typically as regards the enlisted bridge watch standers (save the QM), the BMOW ran the rotation schedule. While it may have been driven by a set schedule at times more often it was driven by training demands, weather, competence and or the current operations. Occasionally the OOD would get involved if the watch standers were not performing up to par.
              FlankDestroyer that is a lot of flexibility I had no idea. The Bosn' had a lot of pull! When the snipes began to stand deck watches --when the navy went to 6 section duty I believe in the early 70's I graduated from duty engineer in port to deck watches. I do not remember who put out our watch bill when we stood deck watches, I remember it was published in the POD and we best have a clean uniform! I believe it was the undress uniform for the messenger and assist rod (when we had one). when I promoted to OOD it was dress uniform as I recall. We trained in the engine room, we usually doubled up new guy. He stood a few watches with the guy who's job he was going to perform, in any case all people new to the space had to be certed by the chief, MPA, or CE, to stand a particular watch. Especially top watch. This included guys coming from A, B or C schools , theory was a little different from practice.

              Comment


              • Flankdestroyer wrote:
                Typically as regards the enlisted bridge watch standers (save the QM), the BMOW ran the rotation schedule. While it may have been driven by a set schedule at times more often it was driven by training demands, weather, competence and or the current operations. Occasionally the OOD would get involved if the watch standers were not performing up to par.
                You are correct in that the BMOW maintained the rotation of the watch. This petty officer was usually a 3rd or 2nd class BM and had much more "sea time" than the usual OOD who was atypically a freshly-minted Ensign or LTJG - during the '60s, many of the NROTC grads came into the fleet as Ensigns on a 2 year reserve stint and when assigned to deck divisions, left it up to the Bos'n as to how the watch was run - which, obviously would be the right thing to do. The officers did get involved as FlankDestroyer said when there were issues that cropped up amongst the watch standers. Rotation of the watch (again, FlankDestroyer is correct) depended on actual conditions at the time, but governed by the general standing rotation schedule. I don't recall ever having to wear more than undress blues/whites for bridge watch; usually dungarees. I did stand one watch in Dress Blues when the Task Force Commander was on board - he was a Commodore (combat zone appointment) and it was a special occasion. The officers usually wore khakis and only entering/leaving port wore their dress uniforms on watch.

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                • Bridge dress code ....

                  Originally posted by bbvet View Post
                  Flankdestroyer wrote:


                  You are correct in that the BMOW maintained the rotation of the watch. This petty officer was usually a 3rd or 2nd class BM and had much more "sea time" than the usual OOD who was atypically a freshly-minted Ensign or LTJG - during the '60s, many of the NROTC grads came into the fleet as Ensigns on a 2 year reserve stint and when assigned to deck divisions, left it up to the Bos'n as to how the watch was run - which, obviously would be the right thing to do. The officers did get involved as FlankDestroyer said when there were issues that cropped up amongst the watch standers. Rotation of the watch (again, FlankDestroyer is correct) depended on actual conditions at the time, but governed by the general standing rotation schedule. I don't recall ever having to wear more than undress blues/whites for bridge watch; usually dungarees. I did stand one watch in Dress Blues when the Task Force Commander was on board - he was a Commodore (combat zone appointment) and it was a special occasion. The officers usually wore khakis and only entering/leaving port wore their dress uniforms on watch.
                  I appreciate the sharing of experiences during duty aboard ship. Attached are a couple of pictures from the bridge of The Sullivans.
                  My docent has a son serving aboard ship and donated his older uniforms. My uncles who served during WWII and the Cold War all had uniforms with their names written in INK. I note the photo attached has a slightly better presentation of the owner's name.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by blidgepump View Post
                    I appreciate the sharing of experiences during duty aboard ship. Attached are a couple of pictures from the bridge of The Sullivans.
                    My docent has a son serving aboard ship and donated his older uniforms. My uncles who served during WWII and the Cold War all had uniforms with their names written in INK. I note the photo attached has a slightly better presentation of the owner's name.
                    As I recall in, in the 60’s we were issued a stencile and indelelble pen in boot camp and one of our first tasks was to stenciled all of our clothing towel douche bag everything including the bluejackets manual, except socks I think, those we tied to the belt loops of dungarees! After boot camp many of the locker clubs would have an embroidering Service and we would get our close embroidered it was classier than the stencile, however it was cheaper overseas! We snipes did mostly stencile for work cloths as the engineroom tender to take a toll on cloths, we did not have coveralls back then only du greens for everything. Now on the tender we were allowed the old green cotton coveralls to work in boilers but normal shop word was dungarees.

                    I also find this info on bridge watch standing very enlightening and thank you guys for shareing. One spends all that time in the Navy and we become compartmentalized and do not really know what went in any other devision but ower own, such as my case. I believe the Navy tried to change that with the Surface Warfare Quals where we were sopposed to get to know the ship as a whole. It was not till I became a civilian that I began to understand the bridge from the civilian side of the fence. However in my navy day the Surface Warfare concept was in discussion so I never really knew the workings on the Bridge! I never stood an underway watch up on the bridge, in fact at the time I do not believe I had any interest to do so. I did however stand inport quarterdeck watches as messenger, bow, stern, and brow watches on that tender and on the destroyer I graduated to stand OOD. When standing inport quarterdeck we were required to done dress uniform and on occasion undress uniform depending on the port of call. The only place I recall were we were allowed to done dungarees was in the shipyard. That for me was Boston...twice...in winter each time with the added expereance of snow! Colder than a “Well Digger in the Klondike!” So cold in fact, my first time in Drydock, the warping winch froze , we, the entire crew half on port side half on the stbd side grabbing mooring lines pulled the ship into dock with a little help from a tug in the stern but none the less it was cold! After we got the ship in we went to one of the shops and we were issued a shot of brandy by the corpsman! To this day that expereance , Never forgotten!

                    Comment



                    • This is a photo of a Soloshell Evap bilgepump took on the Sullivans but I am not sure, however on all fletchers there was only one evaporator. Even though it was rated for 12000 gal per day most evaps never reached their op gallons. At least the ones I was involved with were very sensitive and seldom seldom reached their normal limit. "Water hours" and "navy showers" w the name of the game! Now water hrs as Lon as the feed tanks were topped off! Surely the engineers and architects of the period knew of the Evap's limits, especially since they designed the propulsion plant systems with all flanged joints! As you know these joints are subject to leaking and with valve and pump packing glands leaking (pump packing glands were designed to have run off in those days...today most are mechanical seals with no runoff) if the plant had some hard usage then it is conceivable that the main spaces could become a rain forest...this is extreme and very seldom happened, since the snipes spent a great deal of their liberty time tightening joints and packing glands or repacking the offending gland, however it a possibility! and I would have thought the designers would have figured this in. So the question is why did they install only one evaporator on these ships, does any one have any idea?

                      BuShips did install 2 evaps on the follow on 692-710 class did they not? Just curious

                      Comment


                      • Absolutely ...

                        Originally posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
                        [ATTACH]46452[/ATTACH]
                        This is a photo of a Soloshell Evap bilgepump took on the Sullivans but I am not sure, however on all fletchers there was only one evaporator. Even though it was rated for 12000 gal per day most evaps never reached their op gallons. At least the ones I was involved with were very sensitive and seldom seldom reached their normal limit. "Water hours" and "navy showers" w the name of the game! Now water hrs as Lon as the feed tanks were topped off! Surely the engineers and architects of the period knew of the Evap's limits, especially since they designed the propulsion plant systems with all flanged joints! As you know these joints are subject to leaking and with valve and pump packing glands leaking (pump packing glands were designed to have run off in those days...today most are mechanical seals with no runoff) if the plant had some hard usage then it is conceivable that the main spaces could become a rain forest...this is extreme and very seldom happened, since the snipes spent a great deal of their liberty time tightening joints and packing glands or repacking the offending gland, however it a possibility! and I would have thought the designers would have figured this in. So the question is why did they install only one evaporator on these ships, does any one have any idea?

                        BuShips did install 2 evaps on the follow on 692-710 class did they not? Just curious
                        Yes, the USS Allen M. Sumner had two (2). While touring the Fletcher's I noted that there was room in the aft compartment for a second, but BuShips for some reason installed just 1. Much to the chagrin of many sailors restricted to "Water Hours".
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by blidgepump; 25 Jul 18,, 15:12.

                        Comment


                        • Yes the Fletchers only had one set of evaps while the follow on "improved" Fletchers had two. We have talked about this before a while back. For sure feed/potable water production is critical and hence the addition of the second albeit smaller distillation plant.

                          I think in terms of basic engineering (not maneuverability or weapons) the Sumners and Gearings had three significant engineering improvements to the excellent 445 design: more evap capacity, more electrical power and importantly another emergency diesel. The long hull Gearings also picked up more gas which was important if not vital for Pacific Operations.

                          These improvements while at the same time not disrupting production were impressive. We delivered staggering shipbuilding numbers but still produced state of the art designs that lasted a long time....remarkable by any measure.

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                          • Forward Fire Room ....

                            Originally posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
                            [ATTACH]46452[/ATTACH]
                            This is a photo of a Soloshell Evap bilgepump took on the Sullivans but I am not sure, however on all fletchers there was only one evaporator. Even though it was rated for 12000 gal per day most evaps never reached their op gallons. At least the ones I was involved with were very sensitive and seldom seldom reached their normal limit. "Water hours" and "navy showers" w the name of the game! Now water hrs as Lon as the feed tanks were topped off! Surely the engineers and architects of the period knew of the Evap's limits, especially since they designed the propulsion plant systems with all flanged joints! As you know these joints are subject to leaking and with valve and pump packing glands leaking (pump packing glands were designed to have run off in those days...today most are mechanical seals with no runoff) if the plant had some hard usage then it is conceivable that the main spaces could become a rain forest...this is extreme and very seldom happened, since the snipes spent a great deal of their liberty time tightening joints and packing glands or repacking the offending gland, however it a possibility! and I would have thought the designers would have figured this in. So the question is why did they install only one evaporator on these ships, does any one have any idea?

                            BuShips did install 2 evaps on the follow on 692-710 class did they not? Just curious
                            A diagram of the forward fire room on a Fletcher- DD is attached. The distilling plant is shown in the upper right corner of the picture.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by blidgepump View Post
                              A diagram of the forward fire room on a Fletcher- DD is attached. The distilling plant is shown in the upper right corner of the picture.
                              Bilge pump I think you meant the #1 engine room in this case the upper level. who ever drew that and my guess it is some version of CAD they did a swell job it is the science of simplicity. So I believe the white rectangular item that sits transversely across the centerline aft of the throttle board is the first and second stage main air ejector and condenser units which extract on the main condenser to eliminate the air and to maintain the vacuum required to condense the exhaust steam from the main engine. These units are jet pumps that work on steam. That is the simplified version.
                              A high vacuum is required vacuum, about 38" hg, is to condense the main engine exhaust steam back into condensate and eventually feed water for the boilers. There is a similar unit on for the Ship Service Turbine Generator set. near the aft bulkhead frame 110 As we recall the SSTG has its own condenser independent of the main engine so the ssts can operate by itself with the main engine shut down/secured therefore an auxiliary air ejector unit is required that functions just like the main air ejector.

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                              • I thought it was 29 inches of vacuum??

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