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Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

  1. #3526
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    bbvet ---Thanks so much for the information on the drawings! I have been looking for them since gentleman who compiled them passed on a few years ago. A nd his wife passed the material on. After a little searching I found out the Tin Can Sailors do not advertise per se in the ships store.
    one needs to orderBath IronWorks Fletched Class Construction Drawings by phone, call toll free (800) 223-5535, Mon.- Fri., 10 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. EST. as they do not have an item #published for them on their site! Thank you again.

    bilgepump...has some great photos that contain a great deal of information; I am curious to know if anyone would be interested in identifying the information presented in the photos and there by building a sort of information/ operational library. I am sure there BT's out there, who spent many hrs batting burners and checking water, would have some info and stories to tell. The MM's there would have a lot to say about the engine room. I am sure there is an MR out there that is in tears right now having seen those turbine wheels. I spent a lot of time in the boiler rooms tubing and bricking boilers and hydroing them when done. We used their pumps and feed water and we lined up the system. We used to use the Emergency Feed pump Running on air when no steam available. When pressure came up had to remove a few buckets to get the pressure all the way up to 792 When the BRs came the BT's went on the beach! Yea we got in trouble sometimes for it but we held the upper hand! If they wanted their boiler back they left us alone! Any way I personally think it would be interesting to take a photo o say the boiler front or throttle board, the turbine wheels in the shop and let the memories roll, comment on them. A lot of great info is stored in our minds, no one has to be an expert just have an interest. One can pick up where the other left off or pass, as everyones knowledge is different I believe we could get some interesting conversion out of those photos. Any way just a thought.

    All have a great weekend and I think I shall take a moment of silence and thank of my brothers and sisters in Arms that did not make it and paid the ultimate sacrifice so that I would have the freedom to enjoy this group!

  2. #3527
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    Blower, Fan, potato, tomato.....

    Quote Originally Posted by FlankDestroyer View Post
    I had a chance to "steam" by BIW this week. They built a lot of Fletchers of course. However regretfully, I did not get a chance to poke around much in the adjacent Maine Maritime Book store as we were worried about the shift change at BIW.

    Interesting comments about the FD Fans. I never heard them called that although that is exactly what they are of course. We always referred to them as Forced Draft Blowers or FDBs.
    Force Draft Blower, yeap... I agree.... "fanning the fire" !

  3. #3528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    bbvet ---Thanks so much for the information on the drawings! I have been looking for them since gentleman who compiled them passed on a few years ago. A nd his wife passed the material on. After a little searching I found out the Tin Can Sailors do not advertise per se in the ships store.
    one needs to orderBath IronWorks Fletched Class Construction Drawings by phone, call toll free (800) 223-5535, Mon.- Fri., 10 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. EST. as they do not have an item #published for them on their site! Thank you again.
    BM9 - No problem, glad to have provided the initial "nudge". Today was a banner day for me, as well. My resident NARA author/researcher (Rick E. Davis) mailed me a CD containing the 1968 BoGP of USS STODDARD (DD-566) (my next project, perhaps). BoGP stands for Booklet of General Plans for those who are not familiar with this terminology.

    I have been working on a modified FLETCHER CAD drawing for some time now of the 01 Level and above superstructure for the 4 gun 1950s-60s era FLETCHERs specifically to aid the construction of my model. But, with only a few section photos of the BoGP without a complete drawing to work from, there were large blanks - now, they can be filled in correctly and to scale, etc. etc. Rick was able to take time from his busy NARA week doing his own research to accommodate my needs - I think he is a fine gentleman and a good person to know. As well, his booklets and writings are some of the tops for modelers and ship historians alike. While I have almost all the written material on the FLETCHER class, having a set of plans on my own ship really helps - once again, these ships are individuals - no two alike - esp. after the mods of the '50s began.

    In regards to BP's photos - I agree that detailed descriptions of those spaces would really set the tone for understanding what you're looking at.

    I too wish to acknowledge the sacrifice made by our brothers in arms - a debt which sadly many American citizens will never fully understand or appreciate.

    Hank
    Last edited by bbvet; 26 May 18, at 00:16.

  4. #3529
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    Not to compete with Blidge's photos, but....

    bbvet, since you never got below to the engineering spaces on your DE, here's a few shots of our B3 onboard Slater. One slight difference to the other shots is that this one functions. That 8-278 in there was completely rebuilt and purrs like a lion. Of the two mains, one was rebuilt and almost started and the other is a work in progress. The control board is all rebuilt and ready to do all it needs to. BM9, I wouldn't eat off those deck plates. But, we have plenty of that bright red epoxy!
    Now, I wish I could say the same about B-1. But, it's getting there!
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  5. #3530
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    SlaterDoc,

    Great Photos!! That shows what some real hard work can do!! Of course, the DE I served in for 3 weeks (BRIDGET - DE-1024) was a much later build (1957), but I'm guessing that the plants would have been fairly similar in overall layout. It's quite interesting to see the differences (and also the obvious importance) between how one museum group maintains their ship vs another group. WELL DONE!!!

  6. #3531
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    SlaterDoc,

    Great Photos!! That shows what some real hard work can do!! Of course, the DE I served in for 3 weeks (BRIDGET - DE-1024) was a much later build (1957), but I'm guessing that the plants would have been fairly similar in overall layout. It's quite interesting to see the differences (and also the obvious importance) between how one museum group maintains their ship vs another group. WELL DONE!!!
    Slater was diesel electric power versus steam geared turbine drive for the Dealey Class but pretty close on performance.


    These Slater engineering spaces look pretty good. Funding for museum ships can be pretty problematic I wonder how Slater manages with the $$$?

  7. #3532
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    The Slater is extra clean.....

    Quote Originally Posted by FlankDestroyer View Post
    Slater was diesel electric power versus steam geared turbine drive for the Dealey Class but pretty close on performance.


    These Slater engineering spaces look pretty good. Funding for museum ships can be pretty problematic I wonder how Slater manages with the $$$?
    The Slater is extra clean and I've have been following her progress for some time.
    (I've still got her on my list to visit, too!)
    Note the dedicated crew and resourcefulness of the leadership to get the ship at such a high state of readiness..
    A key factor to the Slater's success ( IMO) is economy of scale. The second as mentioned is Diesel Electric v steam turbine as a power source.
    Last edited by blidgepump; 30 May 18, at 01:26.

  8. #3533
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    Shhhhhhhhh...please don't say anything to the Navy! They think she is still active!

    So, I am divulging a secret here! Not to take anything from our guys. But, it doesn't hurt to be augmented by the active Navy! They're here so much, they may start claiming racks!
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    How do we get them here? We feed em!
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    Another secret is if you don't have the original, build it! as in the missing smoke screen generator!
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    OK, enough about Slater! I'm sorry Blidge! I can get carried away!
    What would be great is if you could make your visit during one of the work weeks when the out-of-town crews are here. Sleep, Eat and stand watch!

  9. #3534
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    SlaterDoc,

    Where do the Active Navy dudes come from?
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  10. #3535
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Wow!

    That last submittal to this thread brought about several topics I hope to cover and a few questions.
    Again, I'm on the road and working from a laptop so I'll try to bang out some worthy responses.
    The electrical upgrades on the Fletchers ( i.e. Post WW II) were extensive.
    The older "Knife switches replaced by Modern Breakers" & the contrast of a "bare metal ( i.e. No paint) environment of WWII vs. a detailed painted museum ship are examples which might can confuse the historian trying to follow the evolution of DD development.

    So to lead off with a "softball" question. Are all modern USN engine spaces well maintained with spotless paint and clean diamond tread?
    Perhaps I lead off with my suggestion of identifying information in bilgepumps photos. Thought I would start with the one that shows a lot of info but easy to recognize, #4 Main Feed Pump in the last photo set: The main feed Pump pumps feed water from the booster pumps and DA Tank, supplies the feed water to the boilers through the boiler economizer inlet in the fireroom. This pump is located aft engine room upper level STBD Side fwd in #2 engine room. #4 is the inboard pump. Another way to tell this is upper level is the lagging under deck plates and the grey piping under deck plates. and the last dead giveaway is the light reflecting on the fwd bulkhead
    1- Center of photo is the turbine end of the feed pump, the grey cone with the lever attached is the governor and overspeed trip, the other end of the lever (not seen) is the steam admission valve.
    2- Below the governor to the right is the lube oil sump drain plug and to the right is the plate access to clean out the sump.
    3- Facing the governor at about 2'oclock are 2 them gauges is for the journal thrust bearing, one is the inlet the other is the outlet. (shows temp rise through the bearing.
    4- Just above them is a brass valve wheel that is the overload nozzles for emergence operation.
    5- To the left of the steam admission line is a valve with a spring it is the casing relief valve.prevents turbine casing overpressure.
    6- Connected to the steam admission line is the constant pressure regulator. This device maintained enough steam pressure to have a constant discharge pressure of about 750PSI it worked on feed line line pressure and spring tension. The black Valve wheel is the main stop for the turbine which is part of the regulator. light it off and check the gages once an hr! Actually worked very well even by todays standards.
    7-on the stanchion to the left of the pump can be seen the bracket for a portable fire extinguisher, and above that a "Navy Standard Butt Kit" fore use when smoking lamp was lit.
    8- On #3 MFP (Main Feed Pump) can be clearly seed the funnel drains or Low Pressure Drains these were not generally collected as are the HP Drains (High Pressure) since open funnel invites contamination of condensate and hence feed water so these drains generally terminated in the bilges.
    8- The diamond late appears to be aluminum due to the color and dull finish. I am not sure if these ships were built with grating or diamond plate but I do know that diamond plate was used to keep dirt out of the bilges and off the people below once started it took off. One of the draw backs of diamond plate is that it must be screwed down in all 4 corners to prevent it form dog earring and hearting someone and prevent them from dislodging and someone hurting themselves.
    9- Although not shown in this photo the main engine and throttle board are to the left side.
    Please chime in I am by no means an expert and much is going on old references and my own experience so all comments corrections even disagreements welcome and solicited. Even at 71 I am not to young to learn!
    Well that is all I can come up with today. perhaps next time I will attempt to explain the boiler front. Also I shall endeavor to upload some images that I have thus far been un able to do!
    Last edited by Boilermaker9; 30 May 18, at 18:30.

  11. #3536
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    BM9,

    Very good info on the photos! Helps explain a very complex and confusing array of equipment, to be sure!

    Thanks,

    Hank

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    Alb, we have two land locked Navy facilities just North of us. There is NPTU (Nuclear Power Training Unit) and NAVSUPACT. The CO of those commands likes having this ship nearby. When they have sailors that are waiting on classes or in between classes, with nothing to do, they get to learn the old ways from our Chiefs in their 70's, 80's and yep 90's!

  13. #3538
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    That's great makes life easier for you guys. is there a salvage depot near you? In my navy days when stationed at NWS Earl, Leonardo NJ there was a salvage yard at Lakehurst spent a lot of time there and came back with a lot of goodies! valves pipe lathes mills etc. I imagine being a museum and non profit that your organization would have access to places like that.

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    Thanks Slater Doc. That's a win-win situation for sure.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  15. #3540
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Wow!

    That last submittal to this thread brought about several topics I hope to cover and a few questions.
    Again, I'm on the road and working from a laptop so I'll try to bang out some worthy responses.
    The electrical upgrades on the Fletchers ( i.e. Post WW II) were extensive.
    The older "Knife switches replaced by Modern Breakers" & the contrast of a "bare metal ( i.e. No paint) environment of WWII vs. a detailed painted museum ship are examples which might can confuse the historian trying to follow the evolution of DD development.

    So to lead off with a "softball" question. Are all modern USN engine spaces well maintained with spotless paint and clean diamond tread?
    Today I shall try to detail the middle of bilgepumps photos the boiler front

    1. I do not believe this photo is a destroyer boiler front, as 445, 692,and 710 destroyers all had 4 saturated side burners and three superheated burners. The photo shows 5 burners saturated side which is indicative higher SHP propulsion plants of cruisers, air craft carriers, and battle ships, built during the 40's era. They all had which all had the same general propulsion plant albeit higher horse power, with bigger engines and bigger boilers...of the same design and general shape, the significant difference was the length of the boilers, and the height to accommodate the extra burner, and required larger burners. The photo is perhaps a cruiser, or carrier. The Iowas had the same boilers as the cruisers and carriers but with an extended outer casing that recessed the burner front. All boilers, that I knew, larger than the destroyer had 5 burners saturated and 4 burners superheated. That said, the boiler type, overall fitting arrangement and operation are the same as the 445, so I shall go ahead and describe what I see in the image as you will find the same on a destroyer. The image was shot from the superheated side of the boiler as evidence by the three Air Registers and Burner Tubes showing (end caps painted Red).

    2. The diamond plate again and judging from the finish I would say aluminum. Note how the lagging stops on the steam piping just at the deck plate level. No lagging allowed in the bilges. Bilges painted red for contrast, although I believe it is a left over from when red lead paint was used.

    3. On the left side of the image is the Superheater furnace with the three Air Registers with the handles for the air doors (painted Black)This boiler has B&W Carolina Burners. The other Burner you will find on these boilers is a Todd, recognized by a large brass head with an interior door as opposed to an exterior door. The Oval door with the square Blue Glass is the burner sight glass where the Burnerman observed the the flame. The Burner Tubes (end caps painted Red) are in the center of the Air Register. The Burners were inserted into these tubes and the Quick Closing valve opened. The Quick Closing valve to the right of the end cap opened and closes completely in 1/2 turn if I am not mistaken. Root Valve not visible on left side of photo. The superheater furnace was not lit off until there was enough steam flow through the superheater to prevent the superheater tubes from overheating. This usually occurred at a speed of 10-12 kts. Superheater temp was usually maintained around 850 deg F! No automatic controls here, everything by hand including lighting off. All BT's carried matches or a lighter even if they did not smoke. most of them did not have hair on their forearms as it was singed off during light off of the superheater!

    4. The Black Gage to the right was Fuel Pressure to the Superheater Burners. The Yarway Gage to the right painted silver is the steam flow indicater which measures steam flow through the superheater. The fireman kept a close eye on it.

    5. The vertical white painted line (pipe) is the soot blower line to the Diamond Hand Cranked soot blower seen to the right of the soot blower line that its "head" head painted silver. The soot blower line continues upper level and the soot blower to the right of the Saturated Furnace burners and above the mud drum. The mud drum is the white circle with the large silver end cap.

    6. Directly above the soot blower is the outer casing superheater access door. Remove that (about thirty Dogs and Bolts) you come to the inner door, remove that and the accompanying refractory and you come to the superheater tube bends.

    7. The line that is painted red is the Fuel Oil Manifold which supplies the Saturated Furnace burners. On this manifold are installed 5 Root Valves one for each burner. There is an identical arrangement for the superheater furnace except there are 4 RootValves. The Air Register Assembly and the Burners are identical on the Superheated side. if one looks closely at bilge pump's photo you will notice the burner tube end caps are in a diagonal position look closely you can see a burner installed in all 5 burners. The brass piece under the end cap is called the "gooseneck" of the burner. Note during speed changes the fireman was a busy man changing burners to satisfy steam demand called "Batting Burners, " not an easy job by any means. As I said earlier the operation is the same even on the larger ships! Today it is all electronic/air automation and "wide range" burners! oh push button light off!

    8. To the left of the burner manifold is the Draft Gage which measures the air pressure going into the boiler furnace. This is calibrated in "inches of water". Above and to the left is a red handle with a silver dial This is the "Mike Valve" (micrometer valve) it regulates the fuel pressure to the burner manifold. This my friends is the boiler "gas peddle!" miner speed changes and changes in steam demand can be regulated with this valve. However large speed and steam changes had to be dealt with by "batting burners". The burners in these boilers were not wide range and had single size sprayer plates. Only so much oil could be put through any one given sprayer plate. For this reason all ships with these boilers had excess burner barrels set up in a stand with different size sprayer plates installed all, ready to go, just for such an occasion as a flank ahead or flank astern bell or an all stop! The bridge and #1 Engineroom (Main Control) were in constant contact and through practice learned how to work together by anticipating as many changes in steam demand as possible. On the larger ships there was also a phone talker and or loud speaker system to maintain coms. Now in emergency situations common sense and plant knowledge prevailed. These guys were pros! All of them! It was by no means easy to operate these propulsion plants.

    9. There are several gages above the burners and they would be Main Steam Pressure, Auxilary Steam pressure, Aux temp, Fuel Pressure, Fuel temp, and Feed Temp. These gages have been replaced many times over as all ten gages were yellow backing, pressure gages white backing
    however regardless of color they would be numbered for intended purpose.

    10. Well that is all I have on the Boiler front Photo. Oh to he right of the mud drum you will see the top flange a grey painted web frame.
    If I bore you guys with my detail let me know and I will tone it down some. Thanks
    Last edited by Boilermaker9; 05 Jun 18, at 17:34.

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