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Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

  1. #3436
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    BM9,

    Your comments re. the cannibalization of mothballed ships for parts brings up a similar situation from my DD days: I got my Division Officer & Weapons Dept. head's approval to request a replacement door for my 01 Level Gunnery Office watertight door and it was subsequently approved by the people at the inactive ship facility in San Diego - this was in the spring of 1968, and there were many FLETCHER class DD's still in mothballs. We got the ship's pickup truck and after removing the door and putting it in the truck, drove down the coast from 5th St. Naval Station to the inactive fleet facility and to the ship we were getting the replacement door from. In those days you had to replace one for one, every item that was taken off the ship. They were strict about following the regs and no funny business was tolerated (the way it SHOULD be!). I can't recall the hull number of the ship we got the door from, but she had never seen a day of service. Without elec. power (lights) our short tour of this ship didn't get us far, but I did go into the Mt. 54 Upper Handling Room (this was a 5 gun FLETCHER, WWII configuration) - it was absolutely pristine - everything bright brass, unpainted, and covered in cosmoline for protection. If only our ship had looked this good!!! Luckily, it was a sunny day and we were able to get up on the bridge/pilot house - also, in mint condition. Alas, that ship has long since gone to the breakers, having never served in active duty. One note, we were checked by the guard coming into the facility and also checked by him when we left - just to make sure we didn't have anything else that was not on the authorization form. They did not accompany us while we cannibalized the part, but were very aware of what we came for and left with.
    Something simular to your experience; Iowa and Wisconson were both layed up in Philadelphia after the Korean War, so they were both there for 20 years by the time I arrived. Of the 2 the Iowa was in better shape as the Wisconsin suffered a DH Machine fire which dd quite a bit of damage to the ward room up FWD.
    During my tour Inact Ships was instructed by Washington to inspect every space on the ships, I believe as a result of the fuel offload ordered by Washington during the Fuel crises of the early 70's. Most spaces were very clean except those that were entered for the pumping which were filthy! I know this is in direct contradiction to what I said previously, however capital ships were better maintained. The spaces worth noting were the handling spaces in the 16" gun barbettes, they were pristine, as if they were painted yesterday! Just amazing brilliant white. Never forgot that impression. Turning on the lights in a space that had been secured for 20 odd years! Loved my time in Inact Ships.

    As a side note: Parts were allowed to be removed from; 1. Strike ships (those destined for target of scrap)with no replacement, 2. strip ships accompanied with an DD1149 that had the accounting info, 3. Capital ships with special authorization from BuShips. We used to say the capital ships required and Act of Congress to take anything off! There was one other category FMS Foreign Military Sales. Those were completely hands off!

    All capital ships in the National Defense Reserve Fleet were DH'd; dehydrated air was pumped throughout the vessel at 37% humidity which prevented deterioration for the most part, although did not preserve rubber very well. The DH equipment could be identified on the exterior by the piping and mushroom containers over gun placements directors and some radar. We had to take the humidity readings every day on the DH Ships. I believe technology has caught up to Inact Ships and systems are monitored electronically now.

  2. #3437
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    B2010, Not hijacking this thread to talk about other things, but - what sort of modeling products are you involved with? Ship models, 3D...

    Probably the Internet is one of the most important advancements to the modeler (just for instance) in 50 years. Puts everyone in touch with products/services/etc. that we would never know even existed.
    Model ships and trains. Have for years and I agree the internet is a boon to to the modeler as so much accurate inf os out there and the new products just increase realism!

  3. #3438
    Senior Contributor blidgepump's Avatar
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    Uss kidd ...

    The volunteers in Baton Rouge have really been laying on hands to restore the Officers Wardroom to its WWII condition.
    The "green floor tile" found on almost every USN ship ( I think every ship had these tile somewhere onboard) have been removed and the cement leveling coarse blasted away. This photo shows threaded holes in the deck? Was the officers table threaded to the deck?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #3439
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    BP,

    YES!! The wardroom table was screwed to the metal deck. I remember being in the STODDARD's Wardroom a couple times but for the life of me, never thought to remember the color of the tiles. It may have even been green, light blue highly unlikely. The table was stabilized and fastened to prevent overturning, etc. and causing other damage. I never thought to make a photo of that room. I wonder what the deck in THE SULLIVANS wardroom looks like!
    Last edited by bbvet; 03 Mar 18, at 02:57. Reason: adding more stuff!

  5. #3440
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    The Kidd officers wardrom...

    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    BP,

    YES!! The wardroom table was screwed to the metal deck. I remember being in the STODDARD's Wardroom a couple times but for the life of me, never thought to remember the color of the tiles. It may have even been green, light blue highly unlikely. The table was stabilized and fastened to prevent overturning, etc. and causing other damage. I never thought to make a photo of that room. I wonder what the deck in THE SULLIVANS wardroom looks like!
    Found a picture of the officers wardroom before the restoration began on THE KIDD; checking on THE SULLIVANS....
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #3441
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    BP,

    Very nice, indeed! A bit of history here - notice the arrangement of lights on the overhead? That's because the wardroom also doubled as an operating room when necessary. Most FLETCHER's did not have a doctor assigned to them, but those that did could perform surgery using the dining table as an operating table. Just a bit of DD trivia. I, for example, had to have a minor procedure so was transferred to KITTY HAWK for that since STODDARD only had a HM2 on board.
    Last edited by bbvet; 03 Mar 18, at 10:34.

  7. #3442
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    I believe that the area color was chosen to make the ship blend in more with the sea and horizon when viewed from the air. not sure but believe that true.

  8. #3443
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidgepump View Post
    Just digging through mr stock photos of other Fletcher DD's and the question of the deck color arose.
    The British painted their sailing ships deck's blood red.
    I note that some USN ships decks are light gray and others dark gray.... is that due to the supply officer getting a good deal on paint?
    Can someone tell me which ship that has the bootstrap on the main deck as indicated in the above photo? Thank you

  9. #3444
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    Number please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boilermaker9 View Post
    Can someone tell me which ship that has the bootstrap on the main deck as indicated in the above photo? Thank you
    I'll try... what was the frame sequence number... the number at the far right in the Grey colored bar .................................................. ........................ up there ^ ???
    this is post # 3444

  10. #3445
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    The last two posts (#3443/#3444) make absolutely no sense - Boilermaker 9 please explain or something!

    FYI -Adm. Nelson may have been the one to END the British tradition of red gundecks in their warships. He also introduced the "Nelson Checker" which is the exterior paint scheme seen on most British (and other) warships of his era.

  11. #3446
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    Bootstrap ??

    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    The last two posts (#3443/#3444) make absolutely no sense - Boilermaker 9 please explain or something!

    FYI -Adm. Nelson may have been the one to END the British tradition of red gundecks in their warships. He also introduced the "Nelson Checker" which is the exterior paint scheme seen on most British (and other) warships of his era.
    I've been attempting to connect the dots, and I'd like to learn about the "boot strap", too.
    With the post number I'd have a picture to look for a boot strap. Standing by...

  12. #3447
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    Bilgepump, the group, please accept my apologies! i misspelled "butt strap", the steel strip riveted to a butt joint in this case on the main deck of a destroyer. I was inquiring what ship the photos was taken on. I know there were riveted joints in the fletchers structure especially where the main deck meets the sheer strake (the very top of the hull). Not sure though I believe that was for the the ship working in the sea way and the fact that welding technology was just advancing. also I believe the Not sure. FYI Rows of hull plating used to construct the sides of ships are called "strakes" and are identified in the ships "Shell Expansion Plan" which identifies the strake and the size and thickness of the plating

    s I walked the deck of the Kid in the 70's at during my tour NISMD Philadelphia (Naval Inact Ships Detachment) there was a butt strap riveted to the main deck in the proximity of the kamikaze attack. I recall it was thicker that normal but also formed out of stainless steel. Not positive as I am relying on 71 year old memory. However I walked the deck of all those ships on a routine bases and the kid is what stands out.

    Again I apologize for the confusion!

  13. #3448
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    BM9,

    Well, that sort of clarifies things a bit. I would, however, somewhat disagree with your use of "butt strap" in referring to deck plating. Unless I'm mistaken, "Butt Strap" refers to the steel strip that is riveted at the joint of two adjoining steel side plates making up the skin of the hull. These are visible on FLETCHER class DD's and IOWA class BBs, and probably most other classes of older DDs, as well. I suppose that you could call the deck straps as "butt plates" as they essentially perform the same function. Your mention of the raised BS on the KIDD - possibly due to the reason why it was located there (Kamikaze hit) to begin with. In regards to the stresses at sea on a hull - there are expansion joints built into the hulls of ships and this is visible on the Fletchers/IOWA class as a hinged plate that is located athwart ship in the deck to hide or cover the opening in the deck where the expansion is located. Keeps the crew from tripping over the open slot. If memory serves me correctly, the deck "straps" on STODDARD were wide (like 12" or so). Here is a shot of the hull plate "butt strap" on USS BOYD:
    Name:  DD544x55-Dec55 - Resized.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  84.2 KB
    Here is my ship (USS STODDARD) in 1954 and shows two of the "butt straps" on the stbd side:
    Name:  DD566x35-15Jan54 - Resized.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  167.4 KB

    Does this make things clearer or only muddy the water??? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

  14. #3449
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbvet View Post
    BM9,

    Well, that sort of clarifies things a bit. I would, however, somewhat disagree with your use of "butt strap" in referring to deck plating. Unless I'm mistaken, "Butt Strap" refers to the steel strip that is riveted at the joint of two adjoining steel side plates making up the skin of the hull. These are visible on FLETCHER class DD's and IOWA class BBs, and probably most other classes of older DDs, as well. I suppose that you could call the deck straps as "butt plates" as they essentially perform the same function. Your mention of the raised BS on the KIDD - possibly due to the reason why it was located there (Kamikaze hit) to begin with. In regards to the stresses at sea on a hull - there are expansion joints built into the hulls of ships and this is visible on the Fletchers/IOWA class as a hinged plate that is located athwart ship in the deck to hide or cover the opening in the deck where the expansion is located. Keeps the crew from tripping over the open slot. If memory serves me correctly, the deck "straps" on STODDARD were wide (like 12" or so). Here is a shot of the hull plate "butt strap" on USS BOYD:
    Name:  DD544x55-Dec55 - Resized.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  84.2 KB
    Here is my ship (USS STODDARD) in 1954 and shows two of the "butt straps" on the stbd side:
    Name:  DD566x35-15Jan54 - Resized.jpg
Views: 125
Size:  167.4 KB

    Does this make things clearer or only muddy the water??? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
    Thank you for your clearification BBVET and the attached images! They have great contrast and clarity! Quit honestly I forgot about the expansion joints, you are absolutely correct all ships over a certain length and beam have them and some ships have more than one. I worked with tankers that had expansion joint and sliding feet . It has always been my understanding that all riveted butt joints require either a single or double butt strap, however I could be wrong. I was taught the joint is the same weither it is on the shell or the deck and requires the same strength. The Archetect that designs the ship calls for a double or single strapped but joint. However I have found that some terminology changes from region to region. Some areas and pieces of the ship are described differently. I know riviting was used in high stress areas in ship construction into the 70’s. Such as the turn of the bilge and the main deck to sheer strake. I was taught that riveting is more forgiving than welding which is why they riveted hi stress areas. Howeve as I said earlier I could be incorrect. I am sorry if I misled or confused anyone. Please jump in and clearify or correct me any time this is a great learning opportunity!

  15. #3450
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    BM9,

    I think you are quite correct in that the strap joints could either be horizontal (deck) or vertical (sides of hull) and still be called "butt plate". As for the expansion joints, here is a photo of ISHERWOOD and the joint crosses thru the 3"/50 gun tubs with the hinged cover plate (circled in red):
    Name:  DD520x52nh-28Jul61 - resized.jpg
Views: 87
Size:  249.7 KB
    Here is UHLMANN from a different perspective:
    Name:  DD-697 USS UHLMANN 1969 amidships LBNSY - Edited.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  377.2 KB
    You can also see the hull butt straps quite clearly in this photo.

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